Scratchin Mamba

4y

Fax

Like basketball is a great example

A tall ass mf short for professional standards, is height now an "unfair biological advantage"?

It's all arbitrary and the only reason to focus on this relatively small advantage that trans women would have ultimately just comes down to transphobia

user

4y

I don’t have the answer to who would win but you’re basically describing Steph CP3 or AI if they transitioned against Britney Griner lol

I’m not a biological expert to know for sure but I’d imagine with players of smaller stature who would be in this situation, calves, muscle structure etc would still apply as potential biological advantages

kool2

4y

Glad to see some people itt can look past the dogma around this subject

We set the parameters of competition, they're not fixed. We don't separate every sport by every biological advantage you could have. We don't separate basketball by height categories. But we just decided that biological males must compete against biological males, and biological females against biological females. We agree that this is fair and act like it's scientific, but it's not scientific at all. It erases intersex and gender diverse people, and it isn't even applied consistently.

When Caster Semenya was deemed 'too manly' she was harassed, had her privacy violated and was ostracized, even though she was assigned female at birth and her high testosterone levels occurred naturally. Meanwhile we celebrated Phelps when his body naturally created less lactic acid and handed him a competitive advantage.

Shows that gender categories are subjectively drawn and influenced by unscientific and dogmatic societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity. They're not divine rules that we have to uncritically worship.

There will be a set of parameters that make it 'fair' for trans athletes to compete, we just need to find and agree upon them. Issue is extremely overblown by a RW machine that has found the perfect culture war target.

Scratchin Mamba

4y

I don't think you understood my post correctly

user

4y

Maybe? I think you were specifically asking about height and the answer to that would be no. But other things such as calves/muscle structure wouldn’t play a role? Especially specifically talking about smaller basketball players who’s skill set rely moreso on ball handling, being able to apply pressure on the inside offensively, unique shot creation, and jumping ability/hops

Especially regarding the general rarity of dunks (at least at one point) in womens basketball. You put Ja Morant out there post transition she’s still Ja Morant

But maybe I’m off

kool2

4y

Glad to see some people itt can look past the dogma around this subject

We set the parameters of competition, they're not fixed. We don't separate every sport by every biological advantage you could have. We don't separate basketball by height categories. But we just decided that biological males must compete against biological males, and biological females against biological females. We agree that this is fair and act like it's scientific, but it's not scientific at all. It erases intersex and gender diverse people, and it isn't even applied consistently.

When Caster Semenya was deemed 'too manly' she was harassed, had her privacy violated and was ostracized, even though she was assigned female at birth and her high testosterone levels occurred naturally. Meanwhile we celebrated Phelps when his body naturally created less lactic acid and handed him a competitive advantage.

Shows that gender categories are subjectively drawn and influenced by unscientific and dogmatic societal perceptions of masculinity and femininity. They're not divine rules that we have to uncritically worship.

There will be a set of parameters that make it 'fair' for trans athletes to compete, we just need to find and agree upon them. Issue is extremely overblown by a RW machine that has found the perfect culture war target.

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Nah the point is basically that height in basketball is a much bigger advantage than the physical advantage a transwoman might have for going thru male puberty

Like Steph is the shortest mf on the court most of the time but is taller than 99.7% of the US population

Except people hyperfocus on that advantage transwomen could have, which is a lot less significant

2words

4y

This is a good post but is it that crazy or offensive to just take gender completely out of sport and say we compete by birth s***not gender? That’s the fairest way imo

kool2

4y

It may be the easiest but it needlessly marginalizes and excludes an already marginalized group when we have solutions available. Also keep in mind that the vast majority of pre-colonial cultures had transgender and gender diverse people. In many of our cultures those individuals were celebrated as sacred. The binary is a relatively new invention for most of us.

eye contact

4y

Someone who’s been on estrogen for years will be more biologically similar to a cis woman than a cis man

math fifty

4y

Genuine question how much of an advantage does being biologically male even give you

Like ofc males and females are biologically different but how much to the point where its a factor in sports like this

SEGA GOON

4y

You can't really reverse puberty and the bone structure it brings

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Nah the point is basically that height in basketball is a much bigger advantage than the physical advantage a transwoman might have for going thru male puberty

Like Steph is the shortest mf on the court most of the time but is taller than 99.7% of the US population

Except people hyperfocus on that advantage transwomen could have, which is a lot less significant

SEGA GOON

4y

But it's much likelier for a male sexed person to grow tall than a female person so it is an advantage of male puberty

Scratchin Mamba

4y

Yes but people don't advocate for height divisions in basketball regardless is the point, even though height is just as much an unfair biological advantage

math fifty

4y

Genuine question how much of an advantage does being biologically male even give you

Like ofc males and females are biologically different but how much to the point where its a factor in sports like this

houseofsilence

4y

I don't really like to touch this issue because its very complex and im not sure where I really stand on it but what I will say is that anyone who is 100% on one side or the other is being a bit unreasonable. If you outright think trans people should not even be considered to play with the rest of the gender they identify with then you're being a bit transphobic. On the other hand, if you don't acknowledge that biologically people who transition later in life developed very differently than the cis people they compete against, you are ignoring science in order to fit a somewhat idealized narrative. I'm very pro-trans and believe people should do whatever makes them happy but I also empathize with cis-women who spend their whole life working only to get destroyed by someone who transitioned post-puberty and therefore developed differently.

I agree that this could be solved by making it easier for pre-pubescent children to transition but I also get the argument that a 10 year old might not be ready to make a decision that will drastically alter the rest of their life like that. Some trans people know very early on and that stays with them forever, but its also not uncommon for children to experiment with gender and I don't think that it necessarily means they should undergo transition because of it.

Unforgivable

4y

I can't recall if she did back then but I remember she lost another race after winning the NCAA

She most likely threw the match on purpose during the height of the controversy and wanted to prove a point to everyone that she doesn't have a biological advantage swimming against cisgender females