vingu

4mo

pretentious to these bottom of the barrel ass niggas just means discussing, thinking or being passionate about art

Free YoungBoy

4mo

Flatbush Zombies, Underachievers, and Pro Era

Beast coast was my s*** back in the day. Named my 2k myteam Flatbush Zombies

vingu

4mo

do me a favor. focus less on this idea that it’s describing something objective and more what it’s actually describing, which is behavior with an intent.

i made this, and i don’t actually know that much about it, and possibly didn’t even put that much effort into it. the reason i created this was to impress you or show that im better than you even if im not. that’s pretension. this is not debatable. words have meanings. this word has this specific meaning. meanings are static and can change over time, but this is the overall accepted meaning and it has been for a long time. if you have your own definition you can come up with that and try to popularize it and hope it gets in the dictionary, but for the moment this is what the word means. and in fact you are actually bending the definition to suit whatever it is you're trying to actually say because you're going against what the actual definition says. we need words to have at least semi unchanging definitions so we can actually communicate. reeeeeaaally not trying to be mean here, but at this point im trying to explain to you that water is wet.

of course i have a burden of proof, and i meet it with the song. that was my point. i looked directly at the text, listened to the song, and evaluated it.

the lyrics don’t try to obscure meaning through complex language or inaccessible metaphors, they aren't explicitly trying to come off as better than any one person or express superiority and he wasn’t even talking about anything that required specialized knowledge that he necessarily wouldn’t have (and even if it did, this is poetry we're talking about so... poetic license ig?), or like he was exaggerating what he knew in a way that seemed unreasonable. he just asks direct, straightforward questions about truth and the nature of choice, shares some wisdom, riffs on some hopeful and despairing thoughts, clearly and self evidently being vulnerable and earnest in its emotionality, from the way it's delivered and sung to the actual lyrics. everything about these lyrics scream unpretentious. so yeah, the text quite literally supports my interpretation, it doesn’t support yours, unless there is something specific you would like to bring up that you feel like does.

and no, i don't want to "only describe art objectively" but some things in art can actually be described objectively, and words have objective meanings that we all at least for a period of time generally agree on. that’s the idea behind the word pretension. it’s evidence based. once again, pretentiousness, by definition, involves intent. it’s not just about what someone says or does, but why they’re doing it. true pretension means projecting knowledge or sophistication to impress others or seem superior, rather than out of genuine interest or skill. without evidence of that intent, labeling someone as “pretentious” is baseless speculation. in this context, pretension isn’t subjective at all because it’s about intent—specifically, the intent to impress or appear superior without genuine depth or interest. calling the song pretentious would mean assuming he wrote it to look profound rather than to genuinely express his thoughts. without evidence of that intent, labeling the song as pretentious is an objective claim about his motivations, not just a subjective reaction to the song itself. this distinction matters because pretension implies a conscious attempt to posture, which goes beyond subjective interpretation and requires insight into the artist’s purpose.

it's like saying you don't like this versus this is bad. one is purely an opinion, and the second, at least in a perfect world, requires evidence to qualify, because the implication is that something is fundamentally wrong with it beyond it not being to your taste, such as a video game literally being unplayable or having broken mechanics.

art itself can’t actually carry intent—only the artist can. the artist imbues it with that, if anything. when you call a piece of art pretentious, you’re actually making an assumption about the artist’s motives. unless you know the artist was creating it just to appear sophisticated or to look down on others, calling the art itself pretentious isn’t accurate; it’s a projection. if someone is genuinely expressing themselves, that’s not pretension, even if the art feels complex, highbrow, or like it's trying to come across as superior to you. when you use “pretentious” subjectively, you're basically saying “i don’t like or understand this, so the artist must be faking it.” it’s a personal interpretation turned into a character judgment without basis, which is why pretentious should be used only when there’s actual evidence of insincerity, because that's what it's for. calling someone pretentious without knowing their intent is like accusing a person of being “flashy” for driving a nice car, without knowing why they chose it. if they bought the car because they love its design or performance, then it’s not about showing off—it’s about genuine appreciation. in the same way, if someone shares philosophical ideas or creates thought-provoking art out of real curiosity or passion, it’s not pretension; it’s sincerity. labeling it as pretentious assumes they’re posturing rather than being authentic, which obviously dismisses the genuine intent behind their choices, which you don't know. you can be a schizo and speculate that prince's entire career is an exercise in trying to come across as superior to everyone instead of a genuine expression of his very obvious prodigious skill and talent all you want, which is what you're doing with this song. but there's no evidence for that, whereas there is overwhelming evidence that prince was a highly sincere and skilled artist, from this song let alone his entire career.

so yeah, calling someone pretentious without knowing their true motives doesn’t hold up bc it’s based on an assumption that what they're doing is performative rather than genuine. really don't know how much more i can explain this. you can ignore that if you want, but you're still wrong. you can use whatever words you want, that doesn't mean they were used correctly. lol

im fr gonna leave it here though because this convo ain’t really going anywhere atp and i got things to do all the best to you tho

Jbreezyondeck

4mo

Anyone that tries to differentiate rap and art

THIB

4mo

“you don’t have the palette to consume it” is very pretentious lol

TheFader

4mo

I think a great example is fans that over a***yze every little detail of an artist because of who the artist is. Stuff like this for example:

Like this is actually ridiculous.

On the flip side, I do think the word gets overused and thrown around by anyone trying to s*** on something that’s deemed “artsy”

Project

4mo

Pretentious is when you try too hard to get your creative point across without letting the music naturally speak for itself

Aka when people embellish too much and are basically begging people to "get it"

Valentine

4mo

Damn on page one too, this @op

allstar

4mo

go watch one of those videos of a 60 year old white dad reacting to future. he’s not gonna understand the context of any of it from the lyrics to the production

is that because future is too left field or because that man isn’t familiar with enough hip hop to understand what he’s listening to?

Valentine

4mo

In the full interview, this 65 year old white dad said he loves Gucci Mane because he speaks to everything he can’t be but loves that someone else can express it for him. Gotta get outside that limited view my guy, it’s pretentious lmfao. Music is music, if you genuinely enjoy it then you will try your best to hear why others like it (there is no criteria to genuinely enjoy music, just saying lol) and maybe even “train” your ear to hear something you weren’t hearing before

XCX Spice

4mo

their fans

TheFader

4mo

St Mis might be the only Prince avi to not be the most insufferable nigga on the planet