Sep 24, 2022·1 replyalso the decentralized forces is one of the reasons of the failures of the anarchist in 1873, each force has their own strategy which lead to no cohesion and no overall strategy for them to build towards.
Maos centralized strategy and decentralized tactics is much more effective
- Sep 24, 2022·1 replyWomanpuncher69
also the decentralized forces is one of the reasons of the failures of the anarchist in 1873, each force has their own strategy which lead to no cohesion and no overall strategy for them to build towards.
Maos centralized strategy and decentralized tactics is much more effective
A centralized strategy of self defense isn’t impossible with a decentralized economy. You say it’s idealistic, but societies based on libertarian socialist ideas are the norm when it came to hunter gatherer societies, they were largely anarcho-communist. You say it’s idealistic, well sure, but why shouldn’t we strive? State socialism is just red fascism, forcing your will ono a populce while suppressing their idealogies. Of course it works better, killing people who disagree with you always works better. But it’s morally wrong, having your free thought and freedom suppressed is wrong. Liberty is the highest ideal and is the one thing all humans should be striving for. Coercive heiarchies are bullshit and dangling the idea of full-communism ‘one day’ is a bullshit scam that represses and oppresses people and state socialists are guilty guilty guilty!
- Sep 24, 2022·4 repliesWomanpuncher69
But the party didn’t have absolute power? Look at Mao China member's of the party was attacked by the masses during the GPCR for taking the capitalist road. Even in Stalin USSR the great purge was to get rid of the capitalist readers within his party both failed but due to different reasons.
The question on how the state withers away is a question on what the state is as well. The state being the tool of one class struggling against another. In China after the revolution, China was full of different classes so some concessions were givin to the rich peasents and national bourgeoisie. and we can see the state fighting against the rich peasants in the development of Chinas agriculture movements from land reform to co ops to communes. Which also shows the economic mode of china agriculture also changing so the state doesn’t always stay state capitalist and does change.
Once these class divisions are done with the crushing of capitalists and its allies and ending the division between the proletariat and peasants, the state will wither away. the problem is this is much easier said than done.
it’s this ignoring of class reality what makes anarchist so weak to communists and fascist as well and never succeed in their revolutions.
Zapatista’s live under Mexico’s state in an uneasy tension, they don’t have independence so i don’t consider their revolution done. Rojava is still fighting their revolution as well.
But the state will ALWAYS oppress, NEVER liberate. Just because a good guy like Sankara had a state doesn’t mean it wasn’t still coercive and oppressive. Listen to his speeches forcing his followers to repeat ‘down with anarcho-syndaclists’! There can be no good guy with a state, if a state is oppressing the power of the former ruling class one day, you better believe it’ll be oppressing the power of the proletariat the next
Sep 24, 2022·1 replyBoxcarscarBut the state will ALWAYS oppress, NEVER liberate. Just because a good guy like Sankara had a state doesn’t mean it wasn’t still coercive and oppressive. Listen to his speeches forcing his followers to repeat ‘down with anarcho-syndaclists’! There can be no good guy with a state, if a state is oppressing the power of the former ruling class one day, you better believe it’ll be oppressing the power of the proletariat the next
sankara's liberation of women and the poor was coercive and oppressive? bringing literacy rates up to 99% was oppressive?
egoist individualism doesn't necessarily equate to freedom.
Sep 24, 2022·1 reply- walks into an anarchist meeting
- tells them to read On Authority
- leaves
- Sep 24, 2022·2 repliesdeadacc
sankara's liberation of women and the poor was coercive and oppressive? bringing literacy rates up to 99% was oppressive?
egoist individualism doesn't necessarily equate to freedom.
He did great things! I personally think he was a great man. But using the state to murder political oppenents is wrong. I think in an anarchist society you should always have a say in how society is run
- Sep 24, 2022Boxcarscar
A centralized strategy of self defense isn’t impossible with a decentralized economy. You say it’s idealistic, but societies based on libertarian socialist ideas are the norm when it came to hunter gatherer societies, they were largely anarcho-communist. You say it’s idealistic, well sure, but why shouldn’t we strive? State socialism is just red fascism, forcing your will ono a populce while suppressing their idealogies. Of course it works better, killing people who disagree with you always works better. But it’s morally wrong, having your free thought and freedom suppressed is wrong. Liberty is the highest ideal and is the one thing all humans should be striving for. Coercive heiarchies are bullshit and dangling the idea of full-communism ‘one day’ is a bullshit scam that represses and oppresses people and state socialists are guilty guilty guilty!
we don’t live in the same economic make up of hunter gatherer societies, commodity production is at its highest stage which leads to class divisions that wasnt present in those societies. And these class division still exist after the revolution and the goal is to get rid of them.
Also do you know what fascism is? it’s not just when state is big. As well when the masses were given free reign to attack the party and build their own superstructure in China during the GPCR no one went to anarchism when it was given to them they went for the revolutionary committes and commune structures and still wanted a state and a party.
- Sep 24, 2022Boxcarscar
But the state will ALWAYS oppress, NEVER liberate. Just because a good guy like Sankara had a state doesn’t mean it wasn’t still coercive and oppressive. Listen to his speeches forcing his followers to repeat ‘down with anarcho-syndaclists’! There can be no good guy with a state, if a state is oppressing the power of the former ruling class one day, you better believe it’ll be oppressing the power of the proletariat the next
i agree the state is oppressive, the socialist state was oppressive to its class enemies that still exist after the revolution ? People don’t just get along and sing on choir together after the revolution
and i already addressed how the contradictions between the party and masses are handled and been attempted to be handled in socialist states, at this point ur just ignoring my points and i see no reason to continue
- Sep 24, 2022·edited·1 replyBoxcarscar
He did great things! I personally think he was a great man. But using the state to murder political oppenents is wrong. I think in an anarchist society you should always have a say in how society is run
i mean yea ideally you'd want to increase the amount of direct democracy to the most benefit to society, but using the state to murder political opponents isn't necessarily wrong in and of itself.
like for instance compradors that want to watch your country sold off to the world bank and throw your entire country into poverty and exploitation.
this is the primary contradiction that i have with anarchism is the need to enforce a system that works for the people, in a time where there are incredibly powerful forces trying to do the exact opposite. i do think that in a potential future, where there is a strong multipolarity of various socialist states, that there could be the implementation of some near to ideal anarchist "state", but until that point its a hard sell.
- Sep 24, 2022·1 reply
honestly i’m interested in @sniper thoughts on any of the points itt
Sep 24, 2022·1 replyBoxcarscarBut the state will ALWAYS oppress, NEVER liberate. Just because a good guy like Sankara had a state doesn’t mean it wasn’t still coercive and oppressive. Listen to his speeches forcing his followers to repeat ‘down with anarcho-syndaclists’! There can be no good guy with a state, if a state is oppressing the power of the former ruling class one day, you better believe it’ll be oppressing the power of the proletariat the next
idc about the state being oppressive. i care about who it oppresses.
- Sep 24, 2022·1 replydeadacc
i mean yea ideally you'd want to increase the amount of direct democracy to the most benefit to society, but using the state to murder political opponents isn't necessarily wrong in and of itself.
like for instance compradors that want to watch your country sold off to the world bank and throw your entire country into poverty and exploitation.
this is the primary contradiction that i have with anarchism is the need to enforce a system that works for the people, in a time where there are incredibly powerful forces trying to do the exact opposite. i do think that in a potential future, where there is a strong multipolarity of various socialist states, that there could be the implementation of some near to ideal anarchist "state", but until that point its a hard sell.
“but using the state to murder political opponents isn't necessarily wrong in and of itself.”
This is your brain on Marxist Leninism
- Sep 24, 2022·1 reply
ultimate freedom for the proletariat. oppression for the fascists, capitalists, and their sympathizers.
- Sep 24, 2022·1 replySynopsis
idc about the state being oppressive. i care about who it oppresses.
But while ostensibly targeting the former ruling class, tyranny always invaribly occurs. Where does it end? It always ends with all of your political advesaries shot in the back of the head under state socialism.
- Sep 24, 2022Boxcarscar
But while ostensibly targeting the former ruling class, tyranny always invaribly occurs. Where does it end? It always ends with all of your political advesaries shot in the back of the head under state socialism.
says who lmao
- Sep 24, 2022·2 repliesSynopsis
ultimate freedom for the proletariat. oppression for the fascists, capitalists, and their sympathizers.
Someone was a landlord so lets send them into work camps and deny them the right to have any say in how the society they participate in is run. I dont think thats a good thing, and I think thats where you and I differ
Sep 24, 2022Anarchism = Dirt houses
At least they're painted right!?
Failed Society, Failed Ideology
- Sep 24, 2022·2 repliesBoxcarscar
“but using the state to murder political opponents isn't necessarily wrong in and of itself.”
This is your brain on Marxist Leninism
what would anarchist do in that situation then? when the capitalists are trying to over throw ur institutions they aren’t gonna care about your direct democracy, they’re gonna try to find every force possible they can muster to over throw you. Even after the revolution not everyone is gonna be on the revolutionary side do you think revolutionary terrors happen for fun?
- Sep 24, 2022·1 replyBoxcarscar
Someone was a landlord so lets send them into work camps and deny them the right to have any say in how the society they participate in is run. I dont think thats a good thing, and I think thats where you and I differ
would u expropriate the land from landlords ?
- Sep 24, 2022·1 replydeadacc
would u expropriate the land from landlords ?
Yes if society agreed that that land hand more public use value.
- Sep 24, 2022Boxcarscar
Yes if society agreed that that land hand more public use value.
but isnt that using the state to inflict property theft by way of violence ?
- Sep 24, 2022·2 repliesBoxcarscar
Someone was a landlord so lets send them into work camps and deny them the right to have any say in how the society they participate in is run. I dont think thats a good thing, and I think thats where you and I differ
Someone was a CEO giving people starvation wages while racking in millions per year burning fossil fuels and dumping toxic chemicals into marginalized communites.
someone was a landlord forcing a single mom of 3 to commit sexual "favors" when she was short on rent
someone was part of a white supremacist gang who terrorized black people and other minority groups and oh yeah he was also a cop
could go on and on and i don't know why you're trying to make it seem like holding these people out of positions of influence is the logical decision lmao
- Sep 24, 2022·6 repliesWomanpuncher69
what would anarchist do in that situation then? when the capitalists are trying to over throw ur institutions they aren’t gonna care about your direct democracy, they’re gonna try to find every force possible they can muster to over throw you. Even after the revolution not everyone is gonna be on the revolutionary side do you think revolutionary terrors happen for fun?
Under anarchism if a fascist totalitarian movement is boiling I would hope that the people would get together to stop it. By whatever means, debate at first, violence if necessary.
- Sep 24, 2022Womanpuncher69
what would anarchist do in that situation then? when the capitalists are trying to over throw ur institutions they aren’t gonna care about your direct democracy, they’re gonna try to find every force possible they can muster to over throw you. Even after the revolution not everyone is gonna be on the revolutionary side do you think revolutionary terrors happen for fun?
how many countries was russia at war with after the revolution lmao like 19?
- Sep 24, 2022Boxcarscar
Under anarchism if a fascist totalitarian movement is boiling I would hope that the people would get together to stop it. By whatever means, debate at first, violence if necessary.
this has to be a troll man