FREE

4y

It's dumb we have too make black soulful music to be considered black musically but I never hear anyone taking away JT white card for doing r&b

FREE

4y

It's dumb we have too make black soulful music to be considered black musically but I never hear anyone taking away JT white card for doing r&b

DonutHole

4y

· edited

It probably hurt that black female singer when they discarded her to be replaced by Fergie and see commercial succes...

clb younghotness

4y

Will I am remind me of a more successful Wale

Giordano

4y

I didn’t know this. Damn

DonutHole

4y

· edited

It probably hurt that black female singer when they discarded her to be replaced by Fergie and see commercial succes...

DonutHole

4y

Yeah they wanted to go mainstream and she left cuz she was uncomfortable of what was being asked of her (they used to be a hip hop infused group but then wanted her to be a sexy singer to appeal to a wider audience, she didn't want to sell out)

They never looked back and went mainstream with Fergie instead

Giordano

4y

I didn’t know this. Damn

clb younghotness

4y

Will I am remind me of a more successful Wale

blachaze

4y

They didn’t boot her she left. See how quick people believe BS? 90 likes on a Lie smh

DonutHole

4y

Despite her being poised about it BEP failed her and really didn't care

She didn't rally have a choice either "sell-out" or leave

She talked about growing up in both black and white environments and having to "code switch" which she was ashamed of... She didn't want to be ashamed and "lose herself" again for money...

If you read between the lines "she didn't want to sell-out but the rest of BEP was heading that direction anyways regardless of her feelings

So yeah they discarded her, hardly ever mentionned her (if at all) after the fact despite her being there in the formative years of the groups and never looked back... Sounds like they "booted/discarded" her for mainstream fame to me

She did them a favor by accepting their new direction and leaving peacefully imo and that speaks to her character.

jjjjjound

4y

Theres literally an asian and a white woman in the group f*** he talkin bout?

blachaze

4y

They went mainstream and she left. Lot different then they booted her for a White girl. That comment was bs

DonutHole

4y

Sounds like you want to argue semantics... When this is clearly about them saying what you weren't capable of doing for us Fergie could.

They wanted to go mainstream and were OK with leaving her behind (whether she left on her own accord doesn't matter imo she still felt inapt due to the groups decision to change their makeup to be bigger acts) despite the work she put in and replaced her with Fergie who fit that era's mainstream succes meal ticket to a T...

They knew what they were doing:
they could've auditioned a new black female singer (they knew from round the way that fit the direction they we're heading) or have both of them in the group assuring her that she wouldn't have to do anything that she wasn't comfortable with...

I'm not even going to go into what precedent that era set for black female singers (get a white girl with bamboo earrings and black rapper associations=make more money => less of other ethnicities of girls in mainstream since they know that the formula works)

blachaze

4y

You’re making it more than what it is. I acknowledged she didn’t want to switch up. But she’s made it clear to say that SHE LEFT. If she wanted the story to be that she got fired she would’ve made that clear

The story is she wanted to remain true her and SHE LEFT.

Ur initial post says simply “they booted her for a white girl” which is changing history and now most of the people who liked it, believe it and may spread that bs elsewhere

Rosebud

4y

I mean if anything, the fact people like Lil Kim, Missy Elliot, Eve were all poppin around that time and none of them had to sell out to be famous, the 2000s rap scene was actually a more genuine period for minority women than it is now where it seems that you can't actually see big success as a female rapper (Rhapsody, Tkay Maidza, Little Simz, etc.) unless you sell a body image like Nicki, Cardi or Meg do

Zero

4y

I hate when celebs insult our intelligence

This guy literally made fergie the most famous member by exec producing her solo album and now wants to act confused

Shut the f*** up

(This is coming from a fan lmao)

clb younghotness

4y

Will I am remind me of a more successful Wale

DonutHole

4y

This is correct she (Kim hill) chose to leave cuz she was tired of "losing herself"

She has talked about having to grow up in both black and white environments where she had to code switch and was ashamed of it

Her mother once called her out saying "where are you" which haunted her even in her BEP days

BEP chose to go a route that was uncomfortable for her (she would have to play the sexy singer role and be more "mainstream" ) and chose Fergie to do so which made them more appealing to mainstream at the time (2000s pop music is characterized by a heap of white stars taking rnb/hiphop elements to sell to the general public)

Fergie def helped them get into the mainstream door with the help of interscope records who believed in them

Kim doesn't harbor any ill feelings towards Fergie and has never met her (she honestly dgaf and is very zen about it)

BEP knew what they were doing (selling out their sound and their image) to the mainstream and now act dumb as to why they're not considered hip hop ?

Gee maybe cuz y'all had a white woman cosplaying (from the makeup to the lyrics they wrote for her) as a black rnb singer like how they ushered in pink...

DonutHole

4y

This would make sense if...

• withney didn't get booed at the soul train music awards for being "too pop" (after this ensued a whole "whitey houston" campaign that crushed her confidence and prompted her to date rnb bad boy Bobby brown whom she met that same night iirc)

• If MJ didn't feel like he had to make black music again (went a more rnb route with invincible and preached how black culture birthed all of modern music but labels be extra s***ty towards black artists)

• If Lauryn hill didn't express her feelings of being successful being tied to selling music to white people (she expressed that she didn't feel more successful for selling records to white people since her music is made for her black people (the environment she grew up in, not really her fault they segregated urban communities isn't it?) but got labeled a racist by... White people

• If country music wasn't gatekeeping the genre with labels discouraging black artists from putting out a country records

Ie: k michelle was told she should stick to rnb and cried on air about wanting to make country music but her label preventing her to do so despite her love for/knowledge of the genre since she grew up in Memphis ( streets still waiting on that country record)

• if black artists didn't regularly get pushed out of pop categories (expect for a select few) ie: the weeknd this year...

When the highest on the totem pole of black artists have been subjected to this "stick to black music" thing it might be realer than you think,

I'd like to point out that the general public understands this dynamic and is quick to put a black artist in their place either by accepting that they crossed over successfully (when said artist fits the mainstream mold of that era à la Whitney Houston) or by ignoring/underating them when they don't (ie: beyonce isn't considered a pop artist by many but lady gaga is despite both using other less popular genres (rnb for bey and house for gaga, ) to peddle to the general public...

Tl:dr : your sentiment of "not making "black music"" would make sense in a post-racial world where the cultural exchange between different cultures would be almost equal.

A black girl from Memphis would have the same opportunities to become a country star (today, viewed as white music) as a white boy from Detroit would have to become rap superstar...

DonutHole

4y

Hmmm I think were looking at it from different perspectives (sorta like what came first , the chicken or the egg)

Correct me if I'm wrong:

you seem to think that the artist has a genuine expression that is labeled "less black" after encountering huge succes whilst I believe that the artist trades in a sound/image for another in order to go mainstream or remain on their label.

The Whitney example shows that she at one point felt bad for going pop and the reason people labeled her a sell-out for going pop is found in her music/image itself (the producers she worked with, the hair/clothes to the way that she talked) not the sales she racked up.

The black artist I'm talking about weren't considered sell-outs for selling alot of records they're considered sell-outs for the way they sold those records.

To your credit there are probably artists that get labeled sell-outs when they genuinely wanted to make the music they're making that got them in the successful position they're in (idk any of the top of my head right now)

if you believe that BEP is that group then... I disagree with you, they def were making hip hop tracks in the beginning of their career then sold out to be on interscope etc

I believe the initial singer (kim hill) wouldn't have left if they remained "they same" and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Ps: I truly think that artists that go out of their way to make "non-black" music don't get a fair chance either as most of the black community dgaf about them and their targeted demographic tends to pick the whiter version over them...

Ie: the black eminem's of this world like hopsin or even em precursors/ like masta ace, young zee, redman, canibus, esham (all mcs he is fragalanty"inspired by")