DEL_245

4y

ecofasicism is gonna come into fruition in the next decade and it's gonna be scary

DickerSpaniel

4y

.... well yes, in theory, but i’m just saying if we got to the point of literal tyranny which was met by an armed revolution of citizens, and that somehow legitimately overthrew the government by force, it would very likely be an endless cycle, and those same people who “fought for freedom” would likely have been b******ized and taken advantage of in the process

we’ve seen this countless times throughout history and you still see it to this day in smaller, less popular countries where there have and are mass revolutions and upheavals of power.

we’ve even helped in some

ASAKI

4y

you're only saying this because you cape for staunchly authoritarian regimes and ideologies

ASAKI

4y

this pretentious ass dude cannot take a semblance of criticism for his views and ideology. you call me an amateur yet all you do is link to hacks who agree with you and can't even define what you're against

these types of marxists have to rely on revisionism and their misconceptions to even argue, kills me every time

krishna bound

4y

ecofascism is very popular in right wing circles already, where it's been very closely related to both primitivist and traditionalist beliefs. with that said these right wing circles are hyper-niche and really only exist online. i don't see them going mainstream because of what they tend to be adjacent to.

KimJongUn

4y

its already mainstream in europe

krishna bound

4y

what current parties or movements in europe do you consider ecofascist

KimJongUn

4y

almost all of the european green parties

theyre, with small exceptions, almost entirely all pro-EU, pro-imperialist, and have no problem outsourcing all of their countries' pollution to the third world via industrial outsourcing in order to reinvest those superprofits into "green industry" in their home countries

krishna bound

4y

okay, i see what you're saying from that but i think we definitely have holistically different definitions of what constitutes modern ecofascism or probably fascism at all

KimJongUn

4y

fascism isnt really a purely european or even first world phenomenon, in fact most third-world countries live in conditions which could be called "fascism" and nobody really cares; conditions which are created by the economic scramble for natural resources and cheap labor power which exists in the global south. so if you're not only complicit in this but actively working in favor of this outsourcing of fascism, it makes sense to call these parties fascist. the problem with the liberal definition of fascism is that it fails to account for the political economy of imperialism, which is an all-encompassing global system at this point in history.

krishna bound

4y

I know it's not really a limited phenomenon of course, but it is a highly specific ideology with an incredibly specific set of philosophy and literature behind it just like other political philosophies or beliefs. All forms of oppressive authoritarianism, hyper-oppressive corporatism, etc. aren't just Fascism. I know the word "fascist" has colloquially ceased to mean anything of such and has swapped to just really mean harsh authoritarianism basically post-50s, but the way fascism has manifested in practice historically is pretty divorced from the philosophy which originally developed it. Probably sounds like I'm being pedantic, but it'd be like calling the US a libertarian country

KimJongUn

4y

the thing is that its actually not a "highly specific ideology", its an economic phenomenon that emerges due to crises within the capitalist-imperialist system; this is exactly what i mean when i say that the liberal definition of fascism (which is really just Trotsky's definition but that's a different story) is too limiting and doesnt account for any real political economy. politics may be where the contradictions in the system emerge but the economic base is the determining force; id recommend reading Lenin and then moving on to Sakai, Wallerstein, and Amin if you'd like a modern view of dependency theory and how it creates the conditions for fascism in the third world, and then reading Dutt and Olgin on how "social fascism" creates the conditions for fascism in the first.

krishna bound

4y

I mean, i get what you're saying, but you're just using the wrong word based on colloquial discourse. Julius Evola, Rene Guenon, Otto Weininger, etc. are more what constitute fascist ideology. This has nothing to do with the liberal definition, it has to do with highly specific philosophies and beliefs vs how a practice has come to be interpreted historically and had the meaning of the word changed. It's not even that I disagree with the point you're making, it's just that you aren't using the right word.

KimJongUn

4y

call it what you want: call it fascism, call it "comprador capitalism", my point is that the economic and social effects on the working class and oppressed of the state are the same.

when the US wanted unfettered access into Latin American banana markets (or uranium, or petroleum, or sugar cane, or whatever) you saw the rise of right-wing religious mysticism, genocide, corporatism, ethnic scapegoating, anti-communism, etc.; which was not entirely dissimilar to european fascism of the 1930s.

krishna bound

4y

I think it's far better to just call it liberal capitalism. While, again, it sounds like I'm being pedantic, I just believe in the concreteness of words because of how these understandings affect discourse. Fascism is vehemently opposed to capitalism; the only reason it's opposed to Marxism is because it also rejects dialectical materialism for cultural spirituality. Original Baathist belief (look at stuff Aflaq wrote) is pretty close (albeit not identical) to what actual fascism would look like even though it developed independently and is Marx-derivative.

KimJongUn

4y

but im not talking strictly about ideology, im talking about social movements as they actually emerged; eurofascism in practice was in no way anti-capitalist and in fact deepened the capitalist crisis in europe by destroying labor movements entirely, going on rampant and wild privatization sprees, and attempting to create new colonial empires in Africa for the purpose of raw material extraction and cheap slave labor. the Anti-Comintern Pact didnt emerge because the fascists had ideological differences with the communists (though its 100% true that they did), its because the Comintern represented the greatest existential threat to the international bourgeoisie and their profits the world had ever seen up to that point.

krishna bound

4y

Yes, but this is what I mean, what emerged in Europe is the danger of associating historical practice with philosophical ideology. The term for what emerged in Europe is nowhere comparable to the actual philosophy (to the extent that post-war, fascist philosophers were not tried in court because their beliefs were too distinct from what Hitler or Mussolini had practiced) - I can link you directly passages which reject capitalism if you don't believe me.

KimJongUn

4y

No I believe you and I've seen it for myself, I think we agree with each other and are just getting hung up on some technicalities lol.

sace

4y

If it's even possible in the United States, there's a small percentage.

Even in Venezuela, we recognize the new government instead of the former Maduro regime.

sace

4y

ever heard of Monroe Doctrine?