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  • An error Marxists make, and I say this as a Marxist, is that they perceive selfishness and ruthlessness to be an aberration within human nature. Human nature possesses a duality that is as old as time itself: Immense potential for selflessness, immense potential for selfishness.

    Enough people are selfless, intelligent, and compassionate enough where communism can work, and does work in its lower stages right now. Some socialist nations are great examples, i.e. Laos, Vietnam, Nepal, as well as some communal projects such as Rojava, EZLN, and Sarvodaya.

    But enough people are willfully and uncompromisingly selfish, myopic, and heartless, that they will always be an antagonistic threat to any communist movement.

    You're either going to need to wage a constant domestic war to kill reactionaries in perpetuity, as they will never die out and have always been part of humanity, create a hulking surveillance apparatus that will likely do more harm than good (i.e. China), or you're going to need to build it through unrelenting effort at the grassroots level, and let the individualists kill themselves off as their system crumbles and their numbers wane. Democratic Confederalism is a dope ideology imo because I truly think there are too many selfish people in a post neoliberal world where a statist attempt at communism will probably be a trainwreck in most countries, especially western ones.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    4 replies

    difference is, that selfishness isn’t built into communism itself like it is in capitalism

    in communism, selfishness is a flaw
    in capitalism, selfishness is an asset

  • Oct 4, 2021

    muh human nature

  • Oct 4, 2021
    ImAUsernameLike

    difference is, that selfishness isn’t built into communism itself like it is in capitalism

    in communism, selfishness is a flaw
    in capitalism, selfishness is an asset

    It is a flaw

    But it is a constant flaw that many have and will always have. While building a system that rewards collectivism is a good thing, expecting the worst amongst us to participate in this system willfully is not going to work, and they will stop at nothing, as history has shown, to preserve their utopian fantasies of them being the "main character" of life

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    ImAUsernameLike

    difference is, that selfishness isn’t built into communism itself like it is in capitalism

    in communism, selfishness is a flaw
    in capitalism, selfishness is an asset

    Being a communist is the most selfish thing unless you are wealthy right now.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    Being a communist is the most selfish thing unless you are wealthy right now.

    You don't know what communism is if you believe this lol

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    UpholdTimMosley

    You don't know what communism is if you believe this lol

    I do know more about it than you, so I would advise you lurk more and read more before making such useless threads.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply

    The fact you unironically used the word human nature shows you don't get it.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    I do know more about it than you, so I would advise you lurk more and read more before making such useless threads.

    Doubtful judging by your post lol

  • Oct 4, 2021
    UpholdTimMosley

    Doubtful judging by your post lol

    Go in the socialism thread and ask around if you doubt my "e-credentials" lmao

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    2 replies
    ARCADE GOON

    The fact you unironically used the word human nature shows you don't get it.

    Dialectical materialism only works for people willing to listen to reason

    Many people, regardless of their material conditions, are not going to listen to reason. Nationalism, religion, and ignorance are potent d****.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    2 replies

    The problem with communism is that the people who believe in it are too lazy. We don't want to have a society where everyone plays video games all day!!!

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    UpholdTimMosley

    Dialectical materialism only works for people willing to listen to reason

    Many people, regardless of their material conditions, are not going to listen to reason. Nationalism, religion, and ignorance are potent d****.

    That isnt what Dialectical Materialism means. If you are humble I can explain that term to you. If you wanna s*** on me then not.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    fiveprestos

    The problem with communism is that the people who believe in it are too lazy. We don't want to have a society where everyone plays video games all day!!!

    It's been human nature since the hunter and gatherer days to set up 401ks and speculate on dogecoin

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    2 replies
    ARCADE GOON

    That isnt what Dialectical Materialism means. If you are humble I can explain that term to you. If you wanna s*** on me then not.

    Lay it on me, I have eaten a nice slice of humble pie just now

  • Nort 💫
    Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    UpholdTimMosley

    Lay it on me, I have eaten a nice slice of humble pie just now

    in my experience, you are not gonna get any good faith arguments out of this guy

  • Oct 4, 2021
    Nort

    in my experience, you are not gonna get any good faith arguments out of this guy

    I'm truly all ears, not even tryna be snarky, genuinely willing to hear it out bc if I'm wrong about what it is then I want to learn what's right. I've read almost all of Marx's and all but 1 of Engels's books so I'd like to think I've got a pretty firm understanding of Marxism

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    It's been human nature since the hunter and gatherer days to set up 401ks and speculate on dogecoin

    "Bigger governments dont work, but they're starting to implement Cardano into the Ghanian education system!" - my friend (who thinks crypto is revolutionary) the other day

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    fiveprestos

    "Bigger governments dont work, but they're starting to implement Cardano into the Ghanian education system!" - my friend (who thinks crypto is revolutionary) the other day

    Yeah and the problem is these morons cannot be reasoned with and are numerous, and will always be numerous, if not the majority. Capitalism at its worst rewards sociopathy, which is why 66% of billionaires are sociopaths lol. Problem is, they won't go away, and they have no conscience, so they know no limits. They're literally sociopaths.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    2 replies
    UpholdTimMosley

    Lay it on me, I have eaten a nice slice of humble pie just now

    Dialectical materialism is just a philosophical outlook.

    Materialism is the contrast to idealism.

    Idealism is the thought that ideas are the most central part of human experience, that ideals guide us, that ideas move history. Citing a negative example, thinking thst group XYZ is criminal because of their culture is idealist.

    Materialism is the thought that our material surroundings shape our ideas. To say: The human consciousness does not form his environment - rather the environment forms the human consciousness.

    A materialist would say group XYZ is more criminal because poverty pushes people to crime. He explains politics not with supposed inherent qualities of people, but looks at what made them that way.

    On a more abstract level, a Marxist can look at the bare bones level of economics (exerting energy, i.e. labor power), not the idealized layer of money+finance on top of it, which is ultimately just a representation, not reality per se. This philosophy is the basis of Marxist economic a***ysis.

    Imagine a tree next to a farm. An idealist might say: The tree belongs to that farmer. The materialist might say: The tree stands next to a farm. There is nothing physical that can show it belongs to the farmer. We might assume it, but it implies private property. In reality they are just two objects standing next to each other. Why do we say it belongs to the farmer? What does it mean if something belongs to someone? How can you own something? What implications does ownership have?

    You can guess how dialectical materialism leads to a criticism of capitalism.

    The dialectical part pertains to Hegel, a bit more complicated, IDK if you are interested.

  • Oct 4, 2021
    ARCADE GOON

    Dialectical materialism is just a philosophical outlook.

    Materialism is the contrast to idealism.

    Idealism is the thought that ideas are the most central part of human experience, that ideals guide us, that ideas move history. Citing a negative example, thinking thst group XYZ is criminal because of their culture is idealist.

    Materialism is the thought that our material surroundings shape our ideas. To say: The human consciousness does not form his environment - rather the environment forms the human consciousness.

    A materialist would say group XYZ is more criminal because poverty pushes people to crime. He explains politics not with supposed inherent qualities of people, but looks at what made them that way.

    On a more abstract level, a Marxist can look at the bare bones level of economics (exerting energy, i.e. labor power), not the idealized layer of money+finance on top of it, which is ultimately just a representation, not reality per se. This philosophy is the basis of Marxist economic a***ysis.

    Imagine a tree next to a farm. An idealist might say: The tree belongs to that farmer. The materialist might say: The tree stands next to a farm. There is nothing physical that can show it belongs to the farmer. We might assume it, but it implies private property. In reality they are just two objects standing next to each other. Why do we say it belongs to the farmer? What does it mean if something belongs to someone? How can you own something? What implications does ownership have?

    You can guess how dialectical materialism leads to a criticism of capitalism.

    The dialectical part pertains to Hegel, a bit more complicated, IDK if you are interested.

    the dialectal part always confusing af but isn't it just the idea that everything contains it opposite in simplest terms

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply
    ARCADE GOON

    Dialectical materialism is just a philosophical outlook.

    Materialism is the contrast to idealism.

    Idealism is the thought that ideas are the most central part of human experience, that ideals guide us, that ideas move history. Citing a negative example, thinking thst group XYZ is criminal because of their culture is idealist.

    Materialism is the thought that our material surroundings shape our ideas. To say: The human consciousness does not form his environment - rather the environment forms the human consciousness.

    A materialist would say group XYZ is more criminal because poverty pushes people to crime. He explains politics not with supposed inherent qualities of people, but looks at what made them that way.

    On a more abstract level, a Marxist can look at the bare bones level of economics (exerting energy, i.e. labor power), not the idealized layer of money+finance on top of it, which is ultimately just a representation, not reality per se. This philosophy is the basis of Marxist economic a***ysis.

    Imagine a tree next to a farm. An idealist might say: The tree belongs to that farmer. The materialist might say: The tree stands next to a farm. There is nothing physical that can show it belongs to the farmer. We might assume it, but it implies private property. In reality they are just two objects standing next to each other. Why do we say it belongs to the farmer? What does it mean if something belongs to someone? How can you own something? What implications does ownership have?

    You can guess how dialectical materialism leads to a criticism of capitalism.

    The dialectical part pertains to Hegel, a bit more complicated, IDK if you are interested.

    I'm genuinely all ears, Hegel a real one, keep going lol

  • Oct 4, 2021
    UpholdTimMosley

    Dialectical materialism only works for people willing to listen to reason

    Many people, regardless of their material conditions, are not going to listen to reason. Nationalism, religion, and ignorance are potent d****.

    Dialectical materialism is an a***ysis of materialism based upon actual real world material/social dynamics and not idealisms like the currently upheld Hegelian idea

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    1 reply

    OP, you need to read more theory. The entire basis of communism is utilizing humans' "selfishness" by rewarding individual productive activity.

    Capitalism's "selfishness" almost always pours into complete avarice. Because the basis of capitalism is constant, undying growth. Which means you will never be satisfied by your unending greed for more and more profit.

    Socialism and communism, however, rewards individuals' "selfish" productive activity for the greater good. That selfishness of wanting to have more directly benefits the community. Greater earnings isn't funneled into the already wealthy, it is dispersed amongst the individuals who want to work more.

  • Oct 4, 2021
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    2 replies
    ASAKI

    OP, you need to read more theory. The entire basis of communism is utilizing humans' "selfishness" by rewarding individual productive activity.

    Capitalism's "selfishness" almost always pours into complete avarice. Because the basis of capitalism is constant, undying growth. Which means you will never be satisfied by your unending greed for more and more profit.

    Socialism and communism, however, rewards individuals' "selfish" productive activity for the greater good. That selfishness of wanting to have more directly benefits the community. Greater earnings isn't funneled into the already wealthy, it is dispersed amongst the individuals who want to work more.

    That seems to me more along the lines of individualization and enlightened self-interest though, no? When I think of "selfish", I think of individualism.

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