I can see where you're coming from regarding leaving recommendations to the scientists but I'm saying this it's okay to still talk about it and comment on publicly available data, and data that isn't that hard to understand tbh many clinical trial reports on NCBI isn't too difficult to interpret, but that's besides the point, i was making for of an issue that you interpreted talking about, commenting on, and I guess being a bit skeptical on the vaccine rollout as an attack on science and "thousands of years of medical research".. that was very outlandish but I guess it's more directed at the conspiracy theorists, maybe the wording was just off in your first post

I certainly advocate thinking for oneself and not accepting the first perspective to reach your attention. That's great. Even judging based on expertise can be a pitfall because the range of what qualifies as expertise varies, especially coming from a position of ignorance.

It's a shame though that "free thinking" so frequently boils down to accepting consensus within one's own ideological bubble. "I listen to both sides" is usually code for "I listen to one side and then receive a summary of the counterpoint via my usual sources so I miss out on the nuance." Being widely read means being uncomfortable because it requires cognitive dissonance, and people don't like that.

When it comes to arguments surrounding the vaccines, believe me that I have not only read both sides of the issue thoroughly, I've had to engage with them in my daily life. And I've yet to hear a convincing argument for why I should be legitimately concerned over the rollout or present data on the vaccines, including these recent suspensions. I've been watching death tolls pile up and economies wither for a year. I can only sympathize with so many people at once.

People don't care about numbers so this was a better choice so folks would feel more comfortable when the vaccines come back.

Better to take control now of the narrative cause if people started talking bout Clots and they didn't pause it people definitely wouldn't have taken it.

there's always a choice

if you live in a first world country sure! the problem is a lot of people dont even have access to one vaccine,so they literally dont have a choice

To ease the worries of others, the J&J vaccine and the Moderna/Pfizer are fundamentally diffferent as the Moderna/Pfizer are mRNA vaccines and J&J is not.

So let's not put our tinfoil hats on painting all the COVID vaccines are the same :p

I understand, I am all for talking about it..the way we are doing it. I was directing my first post, and it was aggressive for this reason, to the people who were making claims without any basis behind them.

I get aggressive when talking about science because we are at a point in the world where it truely feels like we are taking it for granted and I feel the politicization of science may use huge repercussions. You know in the past even when the Berlin Wall was still up, US scientists would collaborate with Polish scientists and today even though we are in a Cold War with China, we still every day collaborate with Chinese scientists. Because science should not be held back by political bullshit. I often make this “thousands of years” comment because we are so used to how advanced we are that we fail to appreciate how much blood sweat tears and time and lives went into getting us to this point. And it is an insult to all that hard work when for example people who know nothing about vaccines come out anti-vaccine and try to dissuade people with absolutely no reasonable basis behind it.

There's a big upward trend of people becoming antiscience since there is a lot of influence going around on faith and bringing western society back from being too secular and dependent on science.

Not saying that's anyone in this thread of hold any actual truth, but that is the general vibe I'm seeing as a push back against anti religion culture.

Pfizer gang

canada just reported the AstraZeneca vaccine (derived almost the same way,) just caused a blood clot case as well

cnn.com/world/live-news/coronavirus-pandemic-vaccine-updates-04-13-21/h_30f7c47734bb609d6f6d3499c2ac9c63

AstraZeneca causing blood clots 0.0004% of the times has been known for weeks

You can't convince this guy. He had another thread where people told him the exact same thing over and over, I'm convinced he's baiting at this point with how much he refuses to read and comprehend what is posted in threads he participates in.

From what I understand, Pfizer has the least annoying side affects (but honestly no matter what you get you're going to feel discomfort for a couple of days). I believe Moderna also comes with the risk of you developing a rash or something like that, so I would advise Pfizer if you have a choice.

I mean... he is correct, it just isn’t really a valid reason to dismiss the vaccine.

They had to alter and speed up the entire trial process. They are putting out vaccines that have not been as thoroughly examined through trial as they would have been under normal circumstances.

The people who are anti-science often speak of science as if it's a progressive ideology instead of a systematic process. Making observations, hypothesizing, conducting experiments and attempting to replicate findings takes place very naturally.

yeah and to be clear i’m not dismissing the vaccine for everyone, but for me personally, i am not taking one until i feel comfortable

however, i also work from home and don’t leave the house really or go into crowded spaces so i don’t pose much of a risk to spread or catch it

i’m fine with masking up and social distancing and staying inside until the vaccines seem safe to me

Told y’all

an official that was being interviewed on cnn today literally said for the “first time ever, we are seeing how the sausage is being made” in reference to the vaccines.

he said himself this is the first time in recent history that we had to do something like this

so yeah, i think it’s pretty reasonable for me to be hesitant of these vaccines

especially when a loved one just f***ing got the j&j vaccine and is in the exact group of people that it is affecting

now i have to worry about something horrible happening to them because of it

so yeah forgive me for not being a covid vaccine warrior. i have all my other vaccines, but this one i’m good on for awhile

Take 4000 UI of vitamin D daily, take multivitamins daily, don’t drink/eat anything with sugar, workout, only eat junk food once a week at max, trust in your health.

You know this isn't about the J&J. If you don't wanna take J&J, that's fine, 2 other vaccines out there that don't cause bloodclots.

Yes, the process is going to be hastened, it's a global pandemic. This doesn't change other factors that also hastened the process, for example the 20 years of SARS research they already done done and all of the money being poured into it.

If you say "I'm hesitant to get the J&J vaccine because it caused a blood clot in a loved one" that's fine. That's not what you're doing. Please don't pretend that's what you're doing. You have been casting doubt about the vaccines in general all over this site and refusing to acknowledge what people say to you in response, continuing to pedal "it was too fast bro we just don't know!".

That's fine, you can stay inside and do your thing. But don't be surprised when people accuse you of baiting/arguing in bad faith when you've been doing the same thing for awhile now lol.

Trusting in your health isnt gonna stop you from getting and transmitting the disease

6/7 million i don’t give a s*** m8