Elaborate on the immediacy of economic principles

Ok dis mythical

They promoted anti racism specifically to look better compared to the us and promote communism, they dont need to do that anymore

The entire ideology is predicated around the immediacy of the economic idea as the idea; That the only form of liberation is an economically minded liberation, and this is where the inherent falsity lies because one society structured entirely around economic aims is no different than any other structured around economic goals. They both have as their ends the perpetuation of industrial garbage and the idea of what we could call ‘bourgeoisie convenience’

Well, a society’s structure is determined by its mode of production and further reinforced by the effects of such an organization. Wouldn’t an economically egalitarian and democratic formation of this not be immediately more beneficial, even if not ideally?

And if not, how could one achieve a liberation that isn’t an economic one, considering economics is the primary vehicle of oppression in the modern day through the discrepancy of labor value vs wage

They both have as their ends the perpetuation of industrial garbage and the idea of what we could call ‘bourgeoisie convenience’

Ted Kaczynski is that you?

i like ur thinking

At its core the problem is a power imbalance. People are already beholden to corps to get essential goods, so we should be demanding morally principled action on their part. This doesnt happen (in America) because there isnt a voice for people while corporations have lobbyists. This issue is inevitable unless there is some type of socialism, somewhere in the range of communism to anarcho syndicalism.

I disagree with most of the fellas itt on the solution but they do a good job diagnosing the problem with capitalism

A society’s structure is determined by what inherently makes it up, the production is secondary to what underlies it. It is fair to say the structure of a machine is what determines its product, but man and especially a geographical collection of men is not a machine predetermined for production.
When the bees bring the nectar back to their hive what are they doing it for? Are they being economically egalitarian, is their formation Democratic? Or are they simply following their inborn nature and fulfilling their purpose?

i guess what i’m really tryna get at is that, removing morality from it completely (since morality itself isnt even objective), the system that dominates right now is capitalism. so its not per se a “better system” or even theoretically more “efficient” but the handful of socialist experiments that have “succeeded” before dont bear the evidence to the global working class that it is “efficient” enough to pursue seriously. i understand that evidence is being purposely gate-kept by elites and institutions but what that tells me is that the most class-digestible version of socialism has yet to come to fruition and imo what i see as the glorification of marxist dogma is setting progressives back from actually getting work done cuz we keep focusing on an idealized version of the planet that we have no real means to achieve, when we could actually achieve progress community by community until we reach a ground where maybe a unified yet decentralized class uprising isnt that far fetched of an idea for the US

and im not even in favor of a class uprising in america

i just wouldnt be opposed to it of it was done in a manner in which it could actually achieve its goals

the great resignation for example is a movement i strongly support

same with the protests last year

decentralized movements that actually achieve legislative and corporate-policy goals

agreed

humanity will inherently produce, and since we have the power to structure our modes of production, then we should do organize it in such a way that every producer owns the fruit of their product

the thing is that the protests last year achieved absolutely nothing

The resignations that occured this year will address none of the deep rooted problems with how we exist in this country

how could a decentralized movement achieve the goal of stopping/mitigating climate change? There must be organization so that there can be an effective use of resources that can achieve specific and agreed-upon goals

never heard of anarcho syndicalism till jus now

to be clear ur saying this is where u think society ends up in the future?

i shouldve clarified

i dont personally think decentralized is the way to achieve these goals, but being that in our current state that seems to be the way most of the people actually willing to participate in these large scale movements like to approach them, i think the 2 i named have done more than anyone expected them to

as little as that may be

i personally think leaders are important but these movements seem to have a very anarchist spirit to them so i cant really see a class movement being led by someone whos not in office and that sounds as unlikely as the class movement itself

(and just to be ultra clear im not saying a class movement will never happen but i dont think ill see it in my life time and that if we do wanna see one we should be a lot more productive about it)

yeah the thing with centralized movements is that theres a head to cut off the beast at any second and it presents a liability

i definitely think we'll have the opportunity to engage in and change the way class operates in our lifetime

1. It won't be the success of socialist nations that gets the ball rolling but rather the failure of capitalist nations in the future.

2. Marxism doesn't mean just revolutionary phrase-mongering and so on. Karl Marx himself (if we wanna get to the source) advocated for both short-term reforms and long-term systemic changes in the form of a revolution. Karl Marx wrote a party program for the French Worker's Party and had stuff in it like "equal pay for both genders", "minimum wage according to living expenses of workers", "no foreigner shall be hired with a wage less than domestic workers" and so on, all goals that would have been great for French workers at the time (and still are) but wouldn't necessarily need a revolution to be passed.

In fact, you do need short-term reforms and community organizing to gain trust and support. For example, the 3rd largest town in Austria now has a communist mayor. She and the party there had a hotline for tenants and helped them out if their landlords made trouble. The people came to trust the communists there and gave them their vote.

Now obviously, communism won't be enacted through the ballet box. But you have to start somewhere and most Marxists never opposed partaking in elections. Lenin himself stated that communists should partake in elections and also engage in reforms so as to gain the trust of the people and guide them towards communism by making them aware of their own class interests.

So maybe your view of Marxism is tainted by online retärds and ultraleftists. Traditionally, Marxism was always about both reforms and revolutions, not just one without the other.

Nah where society moves in the future will be determined by a lot of events I couldnt predict the scale or impact of.
I think the eventual water shortage will be a major event and cause a lot of suffering, but may also be a watershed moment for leftism, when the consuming properties of capitalism are so exposed they cant be ignored. Climate change plays a role here too, and I also think decentralization has great potential.

Yeah look what good thats done 😂

Technology is exactly what got us here, so more technology is not magically gonna solve anything.

It will either make things better or worse, depending on what we do with it.

yeah lol technology will save us and not put us into even more meaningless situations like a monetized simulation ... right?

I ain’t saying technology will solve most world problems, but it will enable us to make good enough use so we’ll not run out of resources for the coming thousand years. Not making any comment on how these resources will be used.

you do realize our modern technology needs an the most resources in history to sustain