Oct 17, 2020·1 reply
coltrupi disagree because capitalism is the root cause of environmental and societal degradation and will inevitably undercut whatever meager reforms that manage to slip by it
This is why I’m a social democrat
I’d rather the states or federal governments step in when capitalism fails to address or willingly neglects an issue
I think this is a way more pragmatic way to fix issues than to try to plan a socialist revolution
Because there are people today who need our help right now who have no time to wait for the vanguard
Does that mean the establishing of a vanguard should be absolutely dismissed? No I mean I guess not at all, but unless it’s for the sake of philosophical stimulation, I personally will not be partaking in any conversation that sees socialism as the solution for problems in 2020
- Oct 17, 2020coltrup
right and the alternative would ultimately be no better because the increasing need to exploit workers and the environment is built into the system
there is no ethical mega corporation
But if we as a society become conscious enough to demand humane treatment for workers then we could stop investing into that company the second unions expose them of not keeping their word
But this is also pretty unrealistic cuz most people don’t give a f*** about anyone outside their neighborhood let alone the establishment of a vanguard
But that’s why I think it’s important to teach people about the importance of human collectivism and how individualism actually plays a vital role to collectivism. They work hand in hand and are not each others enemies. Capitalist and socialist grifters just fund their lives off convincing us otherwise.
Oct 17, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPSLol no socialism plays out wrong (and especially would in a country like the US) because there is no way to achieve the end goal through peaceful means without the elite class and the inheritors of it consenting to this wealth redistribution. No matter how you put it. The most socialist nation will still have some sort of hierarchy. And most people today can’t even agree on what form of socialism they want. Do you leave it at market socialism? Do you go full blown communism? There’s not even a significant global movement towards this progression let alone a consensus of how far the progression should go among those in the movement.
So I mean if people wanna pretend that this is a feasible idea go ahead and discuss it all day but I’d rather discuss how we can target specific problems and try to fix them. If the free market is incapable or refuses to then I think it’s the government’s job to step in. But no the US and other powerful nations’ interference is not the sole reason that socialism hasn’t been successfully implemented anywhere (and I mean successful by 21st century standards.) Especially in comparison to the vast majority of capitalist nations.
And this is not to say that people shouldn’t discuss socialism or how to achieve it, I just personally see it as a massive waste of time and an honest disservice to the proletariat they claim to care about so much.
Also this is ALL assuming you agree with me that owning a massive amount of capital does not make it justifiable for you to be murdered by a mob of working class people nor does it make you guilty of any crime that should be punished by death should you resist to redistribute your capital. If not then we definitely have nothing to discuss.
No one has ever been under any illusion that we should be peaceful with the current ruling class
- Oct 17, 2020
Aye btw @kiorren appreciate the honest conversation
Love talking about this with people willing to actually listen to others’ ideas and share their own
- Oct 17, 2020·2 repliesKOLLAPS
This is why I’m a social democrat
I’d rather the states or federal governments step in when capitalism fails to address or willingly neglects an issue
I think this is a way more pragmatic way to fix issues than to try to plan a socialist revolution
Because there are people today who need our help right now who have no time to wait for the vanguard
Does that mean the establishing of a vanguard should be absolutely dismissed? No I mean I guess not at all, but unless it’s for the sake of philosophical stimulation, I personally will not be partaking in any conversation that sees socialism as the solution for problems in 2020
right, i dont oppose any socially democratic reforms i just recognize that they shouldn't satiate you or be your end goal.
there is sort of a time limit here as we only have a couple of decades before capitalisms drain upon our biosphere wrecks civilization (if even a couple of decades ..)
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replycoltrup
right, i dont oppose any socially democratic reforms i just recognize that they shouldn't satiate you or be your end goal.
there is sort of a time limit here as we only have a couple of decades before capitalisms drain upon our biosphere wrecks civilization (if even a couple of decades ..)
Ok I mean I can definitely understand why you think that I just personally disagree
I think government intervention when absolutely necessary is good enough, and I absolutely encourage the government to compete with private industries when they refuse to fix issues that need fixing
But for me personally that is the end goal
I don’t think going beyond that is viable without spilling blood which as you know by know I just cannot condone
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replySynopsis
No one has ever been under any illusion that we should be peaceful with the current ruling class
And that’s why socialism hasn’t worked
Because the guillotine meme isn’t really a meme lmao
And that genuinely scares people
Even if that fear is rooted in ignorance
- Oct 17, 2020KOLLAPS
And that’s why socialism hasn’t worked
Because the guillotine meme isn’t really a meme lmao
And that genuinely scares people
Even if that fear is rooted in ignorance
People, me included are naturally predisposed to not liking violence
So they need to be taught how violent capitalism is on a day to day basis
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPS
Ok I mean I can definitely understand why you think that I just personally disagree
I think government intervention when absolutely necessary is good enough, and I absolutely encourage the government to compete with private industries when they refuse to fix issues that need fixing
But for me personally that is the end goal
I don’t think going beyond that is viable without spilling blood which as you know by know I just cannot condone
perhaps someone who knows their history better than i do can fill in, but from what i understand there have been relatively bloodless revolutions like the initial october revolution and one in burkina faso
the issue is the capitalist reaction which ends up necessitating conflict, as is what happened after in the case of russia.
- Oct 17, 2020
Random thought: If a communist nation is trading with a capitalist nation (under the assumption that there are no sanctions) does that make the communist nation an active participator in capitalist worker exploitation therefore not a capitalist nation? 🤔
- Oct 17, 2020·2 replies
Global socialism is the only solution lol
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replycoltrup
right, i dont oppose any socially democratic reforms i just recognize that they shouldn't satiate you or be your end goal.
there is sort of a time limit here as we only have a couple of decades before capitalisms drain upon our biosphere wrecks civilization (if even a couple of decades ..)
But I actually agree with you that capitalism will die I just think it’ll happen naturally maybe even within decades like you’re saying and not through some sort of revolution or even peaceful demand from the working class
- Oct 17, 2020·2 repliesKOLLAPS
But I actually agree with you that capitalism will die I just think it’ll happen naturally maybe even within decades like you’re saying and not through some sort of revolution or even peaceful demand from the working class
Itll only die naturally once it kills the planet
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replySynopsis
Global socialism is the only solution lol
Lmao exactly. And that’s never gonna happen. Not by means of any revolution.
Climate change will force that to happen before any worker revolution.
- Oct 17, 2020Synopsis
Itll only die naturally once it kills the planet
agreed this is the issue ... yes it will inevitably collapse, but only because we'll have overshot planetary boundaries beyond repair.
and at that point what does it matter that capitalism is done for.
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPS
Lmao exactly. And that’s never gonna happen. Not by means of any revolution.
Climate change will force that to happen before any worker revolution.
You have no way of knowing that
- Oct 17, 2020coltrup
perhaps someone who knows their history better than i do can fill in, but from what i understand there have been relatively bloodless revolutions like the initial october revolution and one in burkina faso
the issue is the capitalist reaction which ends up necessitating conflict, as is what happened after in the case of russia.
Ok sure, but just cuz a few revolutions weren’t bloody doesn’t mean the Czar and his family weren’t murdered
These things are almost inevitable in worker revolutions if real change is what’s being sought after
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replySynopsis
Itll only die naturally once it kills the planet
Disagree I think we can make it
- Oct 17, 2020·1 replyKOLLAPS
Disagree I think we can make it
Lol
We wont
- Oct 17, 2020Synopsis
You have no way of knowing that
You’re right many times ITT I’ve even said I’d love for a socialist nation to flourish and prove me wrong
I have historic trends to suggest to me that it’ll never happen
But we’ve talked before about how it might and I don’t agree with your opinions
- Oct 17, 2020Synopsis
Lol
We wont
You have no way of knowing that
- Oct 17, 2020·2 replies
fam why do you want a few thousand davosians dictating the entire future of civilization for you
- Oct 17, 2020
like yeah i dont like violence either but you shouldn't go into things with the mindset of "either the capitalists nicely give me what i want or it should be thrown to the wayside"
- Oct 17, 2020
If we can reach socialism without violence absolutely sign me up
If not I’m good
Capitalism isn’t feudalism where the ruling class literally owns us as property
They treat us as property but we are not
- Oct 17, 2020
it made me quit my datpiff career as a rapper