I mean bro if it comes down to some 1984 s*** that’s so different than the Amazon starting base being $15/hour come on now

Obviously if we reach a level that is almost indistinguishable from feudalism then we can revolt

But we ain’t gotta do that for Bezos to make that starting wage $30/hour

again

1. you're ignoring the consequences capitalism has had globally. there are literally regions where conditions are unlivable for the average worker.

2. i MIGHT agree with you in a domestic context if not for the fact that the climate/resource crisis is a thing.

And my point is that socialism isn’t the end all be all of preventing this from happen

Just like it’s not an idea to be absolutely dismissed without being properly vetted

As of right now I just don’t think it’s an adequate solution I think it would bring about a lot more problems than solutions

great-o

I’m purely talking domestically

Idgaf if other nations try socialism lmao if anything please do so we can end this debate of whether it can even work or not and get onto debating it’s merits and fallacies

you're misunderstanding.

the point is that capitalists in america rely on the hyper exploitation of workers in the developing world.

so it might seem somewhat "tolerable" here for some swaths of workers, but that comes at the cost of hundreds of millions living under functional slavery.

You’re gonna laugh at me but I think the free market itself can fight climate change... or could’ve

But obviously where we are today we absolutely need government intervention it’s not even a debate for me

The debate is how

Ohhhhh no I’m with you that s*** is disgusting and a crime against humanity

But we don’t have that here in the US (for the most part) and that’s due government regulations not socialism

It may be social programs but they’re still under a regulated capitalist system

nah the part you're missing is the relation between the two

im simplifying but capitalism needs an outlet for its demand for ever increasing profit returns. so if there are regulations upon working conditions here (which come at a cost to a corporation), the cost will be exacted from people living on the global periphery.

and honestly even the "regulations" here are god awful since reagan crushed organized labour.

Idk fam I think I disagree with this as well

If the whole world implemented and enforced humane regulations it would cause money to inflate but at that point it’d be adjusted to all the goods and services so it wouldn’t cause a ginormous economic downfall

If the price of goods from China skyrockets because they’re enforcing humane working conditions then we couldn’t combat that with dropping our wages because we’d be implementing those same regulations here. That would cause the relative value of money to rise out of the pure need of goods for survival (oil, agriculture, etc...)

Of course this is all in my ideal world scenario but that is kinda what we’re discussing after all

I have a question, if we were able to reach a place where every single human born was 99% guaranteed a decent living condition with basic human necessities, but it was still under capitalism where a ruling class exists and there’s a few billionaires with yachts and private jets, would you be okay with that?

even if this were true, it's not enough for capitalism to remain in a steady state.

it demands that you counteract a stagnating rate of profit, so capitalists would eventually use their political/financial strength to overturn those regulations.

this is what happened in the US in the 70s/80s with the advent of neoliberalism, as a response to economic stagnation.

no because again, the logic of capitalism involves a demand for endless profits and growth that would eventually require the destruction of quality of life and the environment.

as i said when this thread was first made, you cant have unbounded wealth accumulation and bounded resources and living conditions. something has to give.

dont think you have bad intentions but im starting to repeat myself explaining this lol.

didnt mind this particular convo but in the future im avoiding this KTT "why not social democracy" exchange. the short answer is that its a short term pacifier that also maintains environmental and imperialist violence.

Alright well for the sake of it let’s agree to disagree

Good talk tho

Communism is when u can’t buy a vowel on Wheel Of Fortune

There is no double jeopardy

The price is not right in Soycialism

Everyone’s living in high rises and are easily controlled by their government. Oh wait that’s the world rn

I asked him to define capitalism and he ignored me lmao

no it wouldn’t

Yeah if you want to kill innovation and send the entire world into poverty sure

“Socialism is when the government does things” ass people are so f***ing dumb lol

you've never answered me

are you a parody account

what

Your account

Are you doing parody

It's bad. I don't like it and I don't advocate for it.

I don't understand how a bunch of ppl online will cape for a such a system either, doesn't add up lol.