Snowboy

5mo

people not participating in America's phony pseudo-democracy for the wealthy is a political statement. its not laziness or apathy, its a wake up call to begin abandoning it for a better system of popular democracy. this can only be accomplished through political revolution.

Snowboy

5mo

people not participating in America's phony pseudo-democracy for the wealthy is a political statement. its not laziness or apathy, its a wake up call to begin abandoning it for a better system of popular democracy. this can only be accomplished through political revolution.

Mark Moschino

5mo

like who is it a wake up call to? Politicians like lower voter turnouts. Smaller numbers are easier to predict/control.

Cant there be a new thing?

Snowboy

5mo

the new thing is overthrowing the political establishment for a better system of popular democracy and socialism. perhaps at some point that will mean some engagement with the current anti-democratic system but it won't be through voting for DNC politicians or liberal common sense about "local elections".

vote for socialists, vote on referenda. but beyond that idk why you would care about elections at this point, there's other work to be done.

Snowboy

5mo

the new thing is overthrowing the political establishment for a better system of popular democracy and socialism. perhaps at some point that will mean some engagement with the current anti-democratic system but it won't be through voting for DNC politicians or liberal common sense about "local elections".

vote for socialists, vote on referenda. but beyond that idk why you would care about elections at this point, there's other work to be done.

Mark Moschino

5mo

also i feel like you're way overgeneralizing "voting"

Not voting for the president is one thing

Not voting for your local comptroller is a different thing.

Explain to me why not voting in local zoning/elections is useful

Snowboy

5mo

how do you be a socialist comptroller in your s***kicker town or racially segregated city? is it possible? thats actually an interesting question and would need to be answered before you could decide whether engagement would be worth it, otherwise this is just a "common sense" answer that voting is inherently superior to not voting.

of mice and men

5mo

Do you unironically believe this is possible in 2024?

And what are you doing to push this?

And how do you believe "voting for socialists" is the way to accomplish this, considering how little value you see in elections?

Snowboy

5mo

I dont believe voting will accomplish this. I said it is a tactic that could be useful at some point. But it would need to be in service of the physical overthrow of the state by the people.

JeffersonSteelflex

5mo

People dead gotta wake up. Why is it that TODAY the courts ruled that Biden can go on ahead with the loan forgiveness. Their backs are against the wall now due to the fact that they are facing backlash from people that won’t vote. You can’t change anything if you continue to play the same game that has been forced down our throats

I’ll personally be voting but i’m not mad at anyone if they choose not

Mark Moschino

5mo

@Snowboy I feel like you're a really smart person, but half of my interactions with you leave me with the feeling that you're more interested in telling me how smart you are, and how much theory you've read over having a genuine conversation with me about how to make people's lives better in a system meant to eat them.

Snowboy

5mo

you can feel however you want bro. I am literally just a dedicated revolutionary.

stop with all this pointless metadiscussion about "what are you doing" and how im trying to be smarter than you. we are discussing ideas on the internet. I believe revolution is possible because revolutions happen all the time and I dont share in american arrogance that "it couldn't happen here". huey newton and assata shakur and malcolm x thought it could happen here and they were far more in touch with the pulse of the people than I am.

Mark Moschino

5mo

well yeah duh,

but it's a statement that isnt materializing for a number of reasons, so i have to wonder is that statement working. Should we try something else?

insertcoolnamehere

5mo

that's to your pov.

there are grass roots organizations around the country making change within their community without the assistance and necessities of a government that has literally wasn't meant to serve the people versus property.

to the disenfranchised that's seen decades and decades and decades of slow change via either of these two presidential parties, you'd be hard pressed to give them a reason to believe now because "patience."

remember, the tortoise and the hare was just a fable. In reality the turtle prolly had the burner

All modern changes that we have ever seen in any place of the world came out of a place of violence unfortunately.

That point is the point a LOOOOOOOT of Americans have yet to come to peace with.

insertcoolnamehere

5mo

that's to your pov.

there are grass roots organizations around the country making change within their community without the assistance and necessities of a government that has literally wasn't meant to serve the people versus property.

to the disenfranchised that's seen decades and decades and decades of slow change via either of these two presidential parties, you'd be hard pressed to give them a reason to believe now because "patience."

remember, the tortoise and the hare was just a fable. In reality the turtle prolly had the burner

All modern changes that we have ever seen in any place of the world came out of a place of violence unfortunately.

That point is the point a LOOOOOOOT of Americans have yet to come to peace with.

Mark Moschino

5mo

you're conflating my points with the points of someone else. I never asked you what you were doing, or asked you if revolution was possible

I asked you how do we reduce the harm of people suffering under capitalist society in the period before the revolution comes

Mark Moschino

5mo

like what are you talking about of course I agree with all this. I said it in the discussion that's been going on for pages.

insertcoolnamehere

5mo

so why u saying snowboy tripping off not believing in voting period?

Mark Moschino

5mo

like who is it a wake up call to? Politicians like lower voter turnouts. Smaller numbers are easier to predict/control.

Cant there be a new thing?

insertcoolnamehere

5mo

so why u saying snowboy tripping off not believing in voting period?

Mark Moschino

5mo

because not voting in local elections elects people who create anti homeless bills.

I'm not saying it's good. I'm more talking about harm reduction while we wait for an actual revolution

Also i feel like you're talking to me as if i'm still advocating for voting for kamala or something, but like I'm not.

I'm merely saying that voting for the mayor of your city is probably a good idea

WRU

5mo

okay youre harm reductionist no further questions