we were so close to first page man

top page is better than a bottom page post

actually trying to structure society around the belief that abortion is murder is clearly immoral

i can't escape that conclusion

real zen knowledge hours itt

But by its very definition I mean murder is a word used to describe the gravest category of killing in a given society

if something is justified, sanctioned, how can it be murder?

So of course a self-defense killing, "manslaughter," capital punishment, a police officer shooting someone in the back -- abortion. various instances of these are variously described as murder by some people and either justified or a less depraved crime by others

but it could be moral to murder, presumably? if someone killed a known child molester walking free in society, many people would cheer and even find that the immoral thing would be to let them keep breathing. even if you were arrested and charged with murder, people would support you, donate to your go fund me if they didn't shut it down.

It must thereby be immoral to believe that something is murder when a critical mass of people don't think that it is

Do I commit murder every time I jerk off?

having an opinion that's "pro-life" isn't inherently immoral

going outta your way to strip those who actually NEED (I could even argue wants, but that's a separate argument initself) an abortion of their rights, then yea, that's immoral.

I mean you can think it I don't think anyone really argues against that. but it is YOUR belief.

Yes.

If that’s the case, why isn’t wasting millions of little sperm when masturbating manslaughter?

You know why.

because it's a waste of a good meal

@SonicNirvana ofc

a belief as an abstract and/or privately held perception of truth is not inherently harmful

it would seem that the moment a belief becomes the preemptive justification for an immoral action is the moment that it becomes immoral

There are bottle girls starving in Jacksonville as we speak.

I would agree fully with that sentiment.

Weird subject. Don’t know to how to feel about it. Know that the government shouldn’t be concerned with someone’s body tho.

Objectively speaking, you are ending a life. But I’m not one to say if that’s moral or not.

Lemme tell you, I ride the bus and I see single mothers with 3 kids looking sorrowful all the time. The fear of broke parenthood should be enough to make you have responsible s***or get an abortion

If preventing my future children from being born into struggle makes me a murderer, then screw it, tattoo some tears on my face

I look at it like ingredients. Sperm is an ingredient. You need milk and flour, eggs, and milk to make a cake. Otherwise those are just individual items.

Semen is just fluids in your nuts until it meets with the womens egg to make life.

Once all those ingredients to make a cake are in the oven, it’s a potential cake.

Got this from Bill Burr kinda

So no it’s not murder

But once that sperm meets the egg and it develops that s*** is life and some choose to end it. Murder is loaded word

I mean a sperm is qualitatively different from a fertilized egg

But of course, many societies have seen masturbation as immoral

In the Bible, God killed Onan for pulling out and nutting on the ground instead of breeding his brother's widow like God wanted him to; altho that wasn't really even masturbation, "onanism" was still a grave sin
(Catholic gang tap in! catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/masturbation-mortal-sin.html)

Ppl didn't even know what a sperm cell was, they just knew when it came out and that it made babies (indeed when sperm were first introduced, some eggheads declared that the sperm "contained a tiny preformed human being" and the egg was basically just fertilizer (aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-sperm-race-to-the-egg-is-just-another-macho-myth)

All that to say -- as you imply, clearly genuinely thinking abortion is murder is incompatible with our present society and the shared perception of reality that its members generally hold

I was implying that the issue is that it would be men committing that crime and they’re the ones making these laws.

yeah true

of course while "polling" says that men and women are "equally pro-life"

"polling" also says that men seem to be much more willing to follow the logic of "saying abortion is murder in public" to "wanting abortion to be treated as murder by the public"

newsweek.com/murder-charges-women-getting-abortion-backed-24-men-poll-1706715

surely the fact that abortion is inherently abstract to them

do more men believe abortion is murder than women? are more men willing to act on that belief?

is "abortion is murder" a surrogate belief to justify the oppression of women? is that better or worse than if the Texas Governor signed a bill to allow the summary execution of abortionists by any member of the public out of a genuine belief that abortion is murder?

yes

one of the most darkly funny moments of recent political history was during the 2016 Republican Presidential Primary when Trump said that women should face some sort of punishment for yeeting a fetus

of course the Republicans ritually denounced him, since in their mind when a woman chooses to hire an abortionist to murder a child it would be immoral to punish her in any way, the poor dear

but surely trump following the logic of "abortion is murder" is even worse than the Establishment Republican Patriarchal Hypocrisy