yea f*** it

that looks bomb but I prolly would've throw in some spinach instead

ok so after looking at some responses it looks like there might be some misinformation going on in that video

from what i've seen, people are saying that:

1st of all honey bees are domesticated just like dogs, and their situation with humans can be considered more symbiotic than anything which is not a bad thing

2 in fact a lot of fruits and vegetables come from this and things like almonds are apparently a product of bees as much as honey

3 honey is NOT a beehives food. most of the hive eats pollen. the only purpose of honey is provide energy to the few bees that are still around in the winter and a person can harvest some of it without affecting the hive.

4 the video says that honey bees are increasing in population and wild bees have decreased which is 100% true. there are a lot of reasons for that, but its probably not due to the honey bees because they tend not to travel far from their hive. it could be from pesticides, environment devastation and parasites, that honey bees also become susceptible to when they become wild

5 absolutely nobody in the right mind would kill off an entire hive ❗ (i saw this a lot). all of that s*** about clipping the wings, killing the queen, drowning them, burning them, yeah if you buy honey from Walmart or Amazon they probably do all that s***, but a local farmer that is most likely unheard of

6 the worst thing they will do is squeeze a male one until the sperm pops out and use that on the queens. thats f***ed up but they also said this is mainly to breed them to be resistant to parasites also said the males only purpose in a hive is to mate with the queen. after that the hive will kill them anyway

after looking at all the info i think im going to go for the vegan options but i dont think someone should be labeled "not vegan" for eating honey as long as its from a good source

yeah i wrote way too much

It's like...honey ain't even all that tho.

Maple syrup or agave can be subbed in with the swiftness.

Good call w maple syrup. I do love me a honey balsamic vinaigrette tho tbh

I think I’ve been fully vegan for about a week now 🙏

Yeah, I wouldn't go as far as to say someone can't be vegan when consuming honey, but I definitely wouldn't give a blank check for it either. Most honey sold in the US at least definitely isn't from local farms, and there's never really any good way to check if you're eating honey from restaurants, etc. which a lot of people don't account for.

I'll probably still avoid honey because there's pretty easy alternatives for it, but yeah I can see the argument

Exactly, it's like honey ain't even all that so why risk it. Plenty of good substitutes that don't involve using animals.

How do you feel about other things in this same lane tho? Like avocados, figs, etc

wym the same lane those is just fruits/veggies

They use bees (and wasps I guess for the figs) to pollinate them, kinda under the same conditions as honey production

scientificamerican.com/article/migratory-beekeeping-mind-boggling-math

I mean personally, there’s only so far I can really go. I think it’s more a product of the whole “no ethical consumption” thing. But at the very least a good reason to buy local

producing honey is part of bees' procreation cycle

bro Cali really is the breadbasket of the whole country goddamn and the whole s*** is on fire rn too

I already only drink soy milk, and even when you factor in all the costs and resources of almond milk production it's still better than cows milk, but yeah. It really do be impossible to consume ethically these days. But going vegan is still by far the best option.

So let em keep it

So is producing milk for cows lol and eggs for chickens

is it useful to em tho? I dunno

Oh definitely agree. Just goes to show how deep exploitation runs

Yes and that's cool. The only problem with cows and chickens is that they get abused to produce more than what they can

they for sure doing that to the bees too lol

@plants do you f*** with beyond/impossible meats?

I doubt honey has the same value milk and eggs do with consumers

See the article above tho, it’s about more than just the honey