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  • Jun 18, 2021
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    1 reply
    Birdie

    I grew up pretty poor from an immigrant family and was able to succeed and get to a better place by 21

    I didn't have anything special going for me besides good parents who kept me grounded and some government grants that relieved part of my student loans

    I probably will be upper middle class at best by working my current career and my fiancé will too who grew up as a first gen as well

    Together at 24 and 22 our incomes are close to 200k close out of school

    She's pretty intelligent and has a really great job, while I'm average and have a decent one

    We both just worked through our poor situations and the system and had a plan to make more money/get certain jobs after school. The current system worked for us.

    Our kids will be much better off than us, probably attend better schools growing up, and will probably have cushion to take more risky early financial decisions to make more rewards.

    Capitalism basically worked for the both of us and people we know who were like us.

    We're not an anomaly.

    Unless a real socialist economic system can be shown to me and have proven success I will never cosign an ideology which hasn't shown me something tangible and proven to work better.

    can these conditions occur in countries like those in Africa, South America, Southeast Asia, Southeast Europe, and the Middle East though? The USA, Australia, Japan, and Europe are the penultimate products of decades of taking other nations’ livelihood to further their own

    Until capitalism works to the same degree it does in the US within other countries I can’t believe in it. People are making pennies on the dollar doing tons more labor than any American can dream of doing, and that’s what allows some (not even all) of us to have social mobility

  • Jun 18, 2021
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    edited
    americana

    can these conditions occur in countries like those in Africa, South America, Southeast Asia, Southeast Europe, and the Middle East though? The USA, Australia, Japan, and Europe are the penultimate products of decades of taking other nations’ livelihood to further their own

    Until capitalism works to the same degree it does in the US within other countries I can’t believe in it. People are making pennies on the dollar doing tons more labor than any American can dream of doing, and that’s what allows some (not even all) of us to have social mobility

    You're not wrong and I cannot confidently answer your question truthfully.

    Any optimism I have that nations within the regions you mentioned can eventually reach an acceptable level of prosperity probably comes my view that their current struggles are rooted in past sociological injustices/imperialism effects which have festered into the 21st century.

    This means that it is possible to do more for them because a moral group of influential nations free of racial/ideological prejudices of the past/present can eventually emerge. (This goes into my view of whole world assimilating enough eventually and dilation of the idea of a modern nation/nationalism/embracement of multiculturalism and a more borderless world) That's a whole other thing and is maybe hundreds of years away from occurring, if ever.

    Sorry, there's a lot to say about this/unpack here.

    Basically though in what I consider to be pragmatic for my own life, I choose not to prioritize those who are currently being left behind when I have the well being of myself and my family to think about. It's why I favor moderate reform and believe lasting/genuine change is achieved piece by piece and not by a socialist revolution.

    I refuse to subject my future self and loved ones to the test drive of radically different system. A system which like capitalism will be susceptible to bad actors and corruption, as these traits are innate enough in humans to be dangerous under any system.

    I will advocate for the liberal changes I think are suitable enough for the present, and hope my children can do better/more.

  • Jun 18, 2021
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    1 reply

    Basically, I'll let you guys be the loudest voices for the right things but I cannot cosign rapid changes because this is a unstable/unpredictable/ever evolving world.

    Y'all can fight the good fight but your ideals won't be seen until you're dead.

  • Jun 19, 2021
    WOOPDEYSCOOP

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6763725-capitalist-realism

    yea bringt his to the socialism thraed

  • Jun 19, 2021
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    1 reply
    Birdie

    Basically, I'll let you guys be the loudest voices for the right things but I cannot cosign rapid changes because this is a unstable/unpredictable/ever evolving world.

    Y'all can fight the good fight but your ideals won't be seen until you're dead.

    humanity’s short term sensibility and desire for immediate gratification is exactly what we have to fight against

  • Jun 20, 2021
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    1 reply
    americana

    humanity’s short term sensibility and desire for immediate gratification is exactly what we have to fight against

    D’ahh
    You’re asking me to give up my luxury’s

  • Jun 20, 2021
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    1 reply
    BestInTheWorld

    D’ahh
    You’re asking me to give up my luxury’s

    ain’t anything wrong with having luxuries

    it’s about how those luxuries came about.

  • Jun 20, 2021
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    1 reply
    americana

    ain’t anything wrong with having luxuries

    it’s about how those luxuries came about.

    We supposed to make them ourselves? that’s a compromise but not the worst

  • Jun 20, 2021
    BestInTheWorld

    We supposed to make them ourselves? that’s a compromise but not the worst

    not that either, just pay the workers properly and have them properly represented in the decision making part of the company

  • Jun 20, 2021
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    1 reply
    WOOPDEYSCOOP

    https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6763725-capitalist-realism

    absolute classic but imo I think hauntology can evoke a stronger reaction amongst skeptics and supporters alike than capitalist realism

  • Jun 20, 2021
    fiveprestos

    absolute classic but imo I think hauntology can evoke a stronger reaction amongst skeptics and supporters alike than capitalist realism

    Ghosts is my favorite