people not being able to make this distinction (largely cuz they don't want to) is how we got to the point that "communism = dictatorship" in their minds

they use the word ‘utopian’ for what isn’t gonna work, but i’m wondering how communism wouldn’t also be utopian in itself, like a classless society?

marx is using the word as a synonym for non-scientific idealism. basically the utopian socialists of his time eschewed theories of class struggle in favor of obscure bullshit.

the theory of communism isn't really utopian since 1) primitive communist societies really did exist and 2) a stateless society would still have to interact with a material reality.

so in that sense anything that exists in the material world can’t be utopian?

utopian is referring to the ideology that was prevelant at the time. marx believed that capitalism had to be overthrown by the proletariat to create socialism and the conditions for communism. his critics did not and believed that communism could be achieved through religious idealism, appeals to "rational" market socialism, or other cross-class alliances.

its not utopian but moreso "utopi-ist" where people believe socialism can be achieved through the immediate application of conditions/disciplines that their percieved ideal would contain

this is different from scientific socialism, which uses the sciences put forth by marxism to build ideal societies in a pragmatic and solidly based manner

after the revolution and the seizing of the means of production away from the bourgeoisie by the working class, can true democracy only begin to be realized, during this withering away of the state from the transition from capitalism to communism (socialism); true democracy can only exist in a world without class oppression and antagonisms

dude if my broken brain could convert these short term memories into long term memories i’d be riding high

@krishna_bound were you the poster that was posting about the 2017 vegas shooting a few months ago? I’ve seen some people mention it was a failed plot to kill MBS was that what you were talking about

Ur doing great

yeah that was me, there's some real s*** going on w the vegas shooting and its crazy the page was just turned on it happening and no one remembers it. biggest mass shooting in US history and no curiousity about it at all from either the public or institutions

there's lots of weird s*** with this stuff in the US that gets memoryholed regularly. the craziest thing i've seen get pushed out of the news was when a bunch of kids were missing in new mexico and authorities claimed they found them in a "school shooter training camp" which was razed by the FBI before local authorities could investigate
cbsnews.com/news/new-mexico-compound-man-training-kids-commit-school-shootings-prosecutors-court-documents-today-2018-08-08

we need to make a "memoryholed" thread.

that nypd fireworks stuff during the pandemic comes to mind

don't even get me started on s*** from the start of the pandemic remember the fake videos of wuhan that had overlaid audio of everyone screaming/wailing like ghosts? that s*** was played on CNN. then there was that claim some guy got COVID in China and it turned his skin black but he was like very clearly wearing blackface lmfao

nypost.com/2020/04/21/chinese-doctors-skin-turns-dark-after-coronavirus-recovery

theres so much s*** from 2019-2021 theres no place to start

what the f*** lmfaooooo

state and revolution is def the best book i’ve read no question

its extremely well written and easy to read so im not surprised

i ordered ‘What Is To Be Done?’ for my next because of it

Fire. Feel free to link up with us in the commie thread discord if you’d like. Very welcoming regardless of where you’re at in your journey, have a wealth of resources there and everyone is happy to answer any questions you might have

discord.gg/sKfmcshe

LOL

aint no way

Is that the real Drake?

Drake supports haz. That means Kendrick is gonna do a stream with hasan

Would be a surefire comeback W for Drake and L for Kendrick