Yea pretty much what I was talking about. The first 12 chapters read like they’re witness testimony of Hadrian’s divinity. Very heavy handed in its biblical references. Damn near felt like I was reading Book of Revelations.

On chapter 48 right, still enjoying the book

Ok got it, we’re on the same page then. I don’t know if I feel like that’s a huge tonal shift though? I do think the Christian imagery/themes have been pretty overt in the second half of the series, especially KoD and DG, especially directly quoting the book of Job in DG. Hell Uvunari was chained to a cross in EoS. And we saw with how Bassander changed his view of Hadrian after the end of HD and how Alexander reacted to Hadrian in parts of DiW it’s not the first time he’s been revered by other members of the cast. I agree with you about the way Ramanthanu and Annaz are speaking of Hadrian, but we know the irchtani revere Hadrian now and why Ramanthanu is subservient to Hadrian. I just don’t know if I agree this is a huge tonal shift. I have been having similar internal convos with myself about checking my own biases about Catholicism/religion though. Especially after DG I had to really sort through my feelings about how much I enjoyed it vs feeling like it was leaning too far in the Christian direction

this is really legendary s***

Exams are over. No work for a week. Back to Demon in White we go!

It’s so f***in great.

Hadrian has learned how to do something in Demon in White that blew my brain

Just finished demon in white holy s***

Got 2 more chapters to finish up SUT.

Started kingdoms of death today.

Finished up SUT. Imma sit with my thoughts on it before I post a review.

Boys kingdoms of death is a tough read.

Got about 20 chapters left in SuT. The arcs/pacing in this book has been … interesting lol. I’ve enjoyed most of the big events that have happened but I’m pretty positive the middle part of the book could have been cut by around 200 pages or so.

But I need to just talk about chapter 63 for a minute William forcing Tarquin to crawl across the floor to him, trapping him in his sarcophagus’ barrier and making him kiss the ring to expose him to the plague … he has so much aura man, even on death’s doorstep. Gonna miss him :timocry:

It’s a harrowing read man. I feel like even having been warned about how heavy it is beforehand you just can’t adequately prepare for what happens in that book. I don’t know if I’ve ever read more genuinely gruesome stuff than some of the stuff in there

they’ve got my man strung up by his hand that’s missing two fingers

VAAAAALLLLLKAAAAAAA

Twas perfect.

Kingdoms of Death finished

Wow.

Finished Shadows Upon Time this morning

@Skrilla interested to hear your thoughts. I've been thinking about it a lot today and am feeling very split - some parts I really enjoyed but some issues I feel like I just can't get past

Been outta town. Get back tomorrow. I’ll post my review sometime this coming week

How are you feeling about it?

Well to sum it up I just feel a bit frustrated by the post DG chapter 40 reveal and how it removed a lot of the nuance and mystery surrounding the quiet, watchers, etc. I know Ruocchio is trying to put some distance between the books and Christianity by Hadrian constantly telling Edouard the Quiet is not his god, but reading the book, especially the end with Alexander stabbing Hadrian’s side like Jesus, it just feels so heavy handed. I’m trying not to be too r/atheism about it, I didnt mind the religious topics the series explored, but I just feel like making it basically an angels and demons battle with Hadrian as space Jesus was just the most boring and generic outcome when it could’ve gone so many directions. Not even to mention how bloated this book was - I really don’t think it needed to be 900 pages. Repetitive plot points, such as Lorian showing up TWICE in this book, not even mentioning DG, when Hadrian didn’t think he was coming. Cassandra and Selene just absolutely useless husks of characters. And I feel like he disrespected Orphan and the Irchtani so much the way he ended their arcs. Doriyaica’s death felt so anticlimactic too - just a bummer that this good villain gets killed by a cup from his little slave

There’s more I could get into but I really just felt frustrated for most of this read. I did enjoy MOST of the major plot points, and there were moments I was absolutely locked in, but right now it’s kind of feeling like a 3/5 star read for me right now and I’m bummed out

I think right now my series ranking would go

DiW > HD > AoM > DG > SuT > KoD > EoS

I really did enjoy this series and won’t ever forget some of the masterful worldbuilding and plotting in these novels. But I feel like I have to caveat it a ton if I want to recommend it to someone, which is a real bummer

If I’m 4 books in and think it’s absolutely peak will I be okay.

I’d say you’re more than likely fine. DG and SuT have 4.6/4.5 of 5 stars on goodreads, respectively, so I think I’m certainly in the minority in my criticisms. Halfway point of DG is where I think you’ll know (and you’ll know the chapter when you get there). I think the direction tha chapter takes the series in is polarizing, so it might depend on your reaction to that. Even as someone who didn’t like it, I still found plenty of things to like in those 2 books.

Did you have any criticisms of KoD? Or was it basically 5 stars for you? KoD is where I started to see some of the signs of things I didn’t like

Pretty much loved it

What was your turn off on KOD?

Well I thought the middle arc dragged a bit, but that was a minor complaint. I would say I had two major criticisms:

First was the depiction of the Lothrians- very clearly inspired by the Soviet Union/major communist/socialist societies. A lot of the major political factions in the story are based off extreme versions of various political ideas, so I don’t inherently have a problem with them being an extremist example of communism. I just felt like there wasn’t much room for any nuance/questions about their society the way some of the other ones have had. Like while Hadrian doesn’t like the chantry, in HD, I believe, he finds himself agreeing with them about the blasphemy of implants/machinery impact on humanity after seeing the extrasolarians and going to Vorgossos. By contrast, this book felt like Hadrian just refuting the Lothrians as evil hermaphroditic space communists without any real questioning or pushback. Combined with the Catholic freedom fighters he meets in that arc … I felt like Ruocchio inserted his own worldview more overtly here than he had in the first three.

Second, I think the death of the Red Company exposed how the weak side characters ruined the emotional impact of that part for me. I would say Otavia and Pallino’s deaths were the only ones that I felt a bit more strongly about, and even then I can think of a ton of other books that have made me feel more emotional about the death of better developed characters. Crim’s was meh, and the rest I didn’t really care that much about. So I think that big punch just didn’t land too hard for me.

I did still enjoy my time with the book on the whole, don’t get me wrong. But I think this one was the first where I felt like i had true criticisms of the series, aside from EoS where I had issues but still had hope that they would be improved on as the series progressed

apologies for taking so long to reply to this

I also was the closest with pallino and corvo and their deaths hit me quite hard especially pallino. the story to me is really about hadrian and valka so I'm okay with more of the focus on them. am also loving the emperor kinda being a good dude in ashes of man so far