Jul 5, 2020
Moody mannSo Daron and Greg come to their conclusions through mathematics while Wolffe comes to his conclusions through philosophical conjecture?
Is this what you’re implying?
you almost got it. their studies are heavily empirical and support evidence-driven policy. principles of economics by mankiw is a good start for learning about econ, it's not sexy and you might fall asleep during it tho.
as for wolff, he has almost nothing in the top field journals. his work often, if not always, lacked necessities to be taken seriously like a***ysis of data, formal theory, and often even references.
that said, he tosses out messy theories and hides behind them while indicting people for misunderstanding what he's saying when they level criticism. if that's what you mean by "philosophical conjecture", then sure.
d stoner 🤬Jul 5, 2020
Synopsiscapitalism literally driving russians to kill themselves.
"Capitalism literally driving russians to kill themselves"
Could u be any more of a manipulative piece of s***?Im sure it has nothing to do with their government owning damn near all accessible media, all the infrastructure, rigging elections and votes....
"Capitalism"
Capitalist societies dont have the goverment owning all the infrastructure, u f***ing moron.The guy who made Tetris, just got his first check last year.
- OPJul 5, 2020·1 reply
BillyShearsI think you just gotta imagine a capitalist society where all of that can happen.
That's not how capitalism works
- Jul 5, 2020Synopsis
That's not how capitalism works
One of the most striking things to me is that so many people seem to lack the ability or the want to imagine that there is another way of organizing society than what we already have.
Sep 17, 2020·1 replyNiceLikeChristImagination is useless if the real world is ignored or not taken into account.
I can imagine a beautiful world that is peaceful where everyone is happy and we all work 36 hours a week doing a job we love. Education is free, prisons are gone, homes are free, food is free, clothes are free, medicine is free. You never have to pay a dime for anything because money no longer exists.
But if I don't tell you exactly how we're gonna get to that point and then tell you why and how it would work in this very real world we live in then it's nothing more than some bullshit I made up in my head.
I've asked you many questions about this socialist fantasy land you desperately want to live in and I never get any answers. How is someone supposed to support that idea then?
Every post this nigga makes in a nutshell.
- OPNov 12, 2020·1 replyTIIMMY BURNER
Every post this nigga makes in a nutshell.
Because the questions of how we get there is obvious; revolution
the question of how it works is irrelevant; no one has the answer to that question, because no one can predict what the material conditions will be. It could work a million different ways and a million different socialists could all see it differently.
Answering bad faith questions does nothing for me, if its not one thing its the other. If I told you or him, who does not believe in these things, and does not want to believe in these things, how it might work to the most minute detail imaginable, then the response would simply be "you're living in fantasy land, human nature blah blah blah there will always be criminals etc., etc.,"
What's even wilder is, I imagine if you, or anyone else, truly sat down for 30 minutes and thought about how free education, a prisonless/police-less society etc., would work, you would come up with it pretty easily.
So, no, I will not answer how it will work beyond what you'd probably call "vague" answers. Unless you, or him, wants to actually learn (I know he doesn't, he's a complete clown) about the perspective instead of trying to argue about why it doesn't work, then any of my responses to any questions are pointless, the goalposts will keep shifting.
Nov 12, 2020Nah
kanye dropped my beautiful dark twisted fantasy were good- Nov 12, 2020·2 replies
tldr?
- Nov 12, 2020the end
tldr?
Nov 12, 2020LamontListen bro i know u usually got great post and i bet you this one is too. Im here to show support. Wont be reading. But I appreciate this thread.
First reply was a toe tag wtf LOL
- Nov 12, 2020
In. Will read later
- OPNov 12, 2020the end
tldr?
Stop constraining yourself into thinking capitalism is all there is
- Nov 12, 2020Lamont
Listen bro i know u usually got great post and i bet you this one is too. Im here to show support. Wont be reading. But I appreciate this thread.
Nov 12, 2020·editedSynopsisBecause the questions of how we get there is obvious; revolution
the question of how it works is irrelevant; no one has the answer to that question, because no one can predict what the material conditions will be. It could work a million different ways and a million different socialists could all see it differently.
Answering bad faith questions does nothing for me, if its not one thing its the other. If I told you or him, who does not believe in these things, and does not want to believe in these things, how it might work to the most minute detail imaginable, then the response would simply be "you're living in fantasy land, human nature blah blah blah there will always be criminals etc., etc.,"
What's even wilder is, I imagine if you, or anyone else, truly sat down for 30 minutes and thought about how free education, a prisonless/police-less society etc., would work, you would come up with it pretty easily.
So, no, I will not answer how it will work beyond what you'd probably call "vague" answers. Unless you, or him, wants to actually learn (I know he doesn't, he's a complete clown) about the perspective instead of trying to argue about why it doesn't work, then any of my responses to any questions are pointless, the goalposts will keep shifting.
I think this is a crucial component of why 'left-wing' concepts are met with so much skepticism. People like you think this issue of people being unable to imagine another system is a consequence of capitalist ideology but the failure of the left to functionally bridge the gap between the status quo and a world in which there is free education, a prisonless/police-less society, affordable and equal housing for all, etc etc. also plays a big role in turning people off.
As you said, that 'gap' is bridged through 'revolution'. How that revolution looks like and more importantly, how post-revolution society builds itself into the ideal society you speak of is never spoken of concretely, thus there is no actual holistic alternative presented to the masses and thus nothing for them to grasp onto. The issue isn't that people don't realize how beneficial the composite elements of a socialist society would be - the issue is that the road to that society is so nebulous and nigh impossible that it isn't worth people committing time and effort into 'imagining' it much less tangibly fighting for it.
Saying things like "the questions of how we get there is obvious: revolution" when discussing this subject with the 'general public' may be doing more harm than good. It makes sense to you because you're so invested in what appears to be the socialist ideal that you're willing to freely admit it's basically a pipe dream to actually arrive to that place. For others who are not so invested in such ideas, the fact that you (and leftist theorists in general) can't elaborate on these issues in more concrete terms understandably turns a lot of people away from what you speak of.
Like Zizek's classic joke is that he'd sell his mother into slavery to see what happens in a V for Vandetta 2 after the revolution has taken place. I know you may respond saying it's literally not possible for you to elaborate on those ideas more concretely and I agree to an extent, but I think it's worth considering how that inability (irrespective of whether or not its legitimate) turns people away.
Nov 12, 2020ah, yes, thank god for the imaginative communists
Nov 12, 2020dat guysypsosis in a nutshell
"Let's abolish racism"
People: "How"
Sypnosys:
Nov 12, 2020
plantsYou've missed the entire point of having a debate with someone while there is an audience. You aren't trying to explain it to them, or change their mind, you're trying to do that to the rest of the audience. The people itt lurking. But instead because u have beef with a handful of users every person who reads this thread with a more neutral opinion sees you as some snobby mfer. You can do better.
Right on the nose.
- Nov 12, 2020
SomeRandomNobI respect your demand for change, and I hope you'll join me one day when waterworld passes by your area. Sorry for being so condescending, you're right that no one person will single handedly change the world.
I guess I'll be a hypocrite and rant about my plan. I've figured out how to 3D print land, you can print an acre for less than a grand, just printing vertical interlocking pontoons. Waterworld will be built on these in international waters, it will consist of decentralized and self governing floating towns, cities and independent people. Some of them will remain stationary, others will travel the world. Some will be libertarian capitalist societies, others will be communistic, and it will be up to the individual to choose what system works best for them, one of the few "laws" of waterworld is the freedom of travel and choice of which political system you work under.
I'm still working on energy generation, sustainable and cheap food production and the extraction or farming of raw resources we could use for the manufacturing of products and the construction of homes and buoyant platforms, potentially reducing the capital/external cost of printing land to 0 for communistic societies. This means that communist societies could actually function independently without resorting to purchasing certain resources from capitalist adversaries, allowing one to actually try communism both consensually and without having to convert the entire world at once.
I'm only a year away from printing my first house boat with a workshop onboard, which I will hopefully use to manufacture and sell houseboats and other products, which will then fund the expansion of my city state on Lake Ontario, which will eventually become the seed for all political decentralized waterworld states, be them communist or capitalist.
It might not work, but this is how you actually change the world instead of just imaging what it could be.
Okay this actually sounds fire at a high level. Hope this works out in the way you’ve envisioned.
Tadow 🥀Nov 12, 2020·1 replydat guysypsosis in a nutshell
"Let's abolish racism"
People: "How"
Sypnosys:
"You just gotta read the literature"
Forget about me distilling that information to you from my own mind & encouraging a discussion/debate
Nov 12, 2020I understand OP, it all boils down to people are either uneducated, educated but complacent, fearful, proud, unmotivated, selfish or a combination of the few
Something like this would demand a revolt in society and it will be hard getting the general public to feel such passion. Moving towards more socialist ideals in the current system we have can open eyes towards the final goal but this wont happen overnight either
Nov 12, 2020·2 repliesSynopsisYou are a troll Will. I don't know why you think I'm ever going to take anything you say in good faith. Over the course of your time on this forum you have pretended to be white, asian, whatever fits you at the moment. You have advocated for the genocide of muslims, and posted a litany of other opinions that could only be considered bottom of the barrel. I don't care to discuss how to get there with you, a non troll, because I don't see the need to down a f***ing rabbit hole of "but what if this happens" or "that would never work" or "thats not how it works in reality" or "no one would do that" etc., etc.,
@NiceLikeChrist Why did u not respond to these allegations
- OPNov 12, 2020Tadow
"You just gotta read the literature"
Forget about me distilling that information to you from my own mind & encouraging a discussion/debate
These issues are not up for debate
- OPNov 12, 2020New NIGHTMAN
@NiceLikeChrist Why did u not respond to these allegations
Because he knows they are true
Nov 12, 2020'Nope! Freer the markit, freer the people!"
