Uh yeah, it is Sports has stats, music has sales. This means Drake is objectively the greatest (the Bukayo Saka of rap).

I can find a talented Rapper up the street. There's 100's of them. I can hook that rapper up with a songwriter and producer, there's 100's of them.

You give me 100,000 to 200,000 dollars and I can create a career for them deadass. I can find a deal for them.

You cannot find say, a 6'8 athlete freak that has the coordination necessary to pass shoot and dribble like Lebron James. This is not subjective.

You cannot find a 7 footer with the athletic ability and coordination of a Giannis. This is not subjective.

And there in lies the difference in music and sport. I think Drake is a top 10 RAPPER (fuck pop artists, most successful) of all time. A ton of people would disagree.

That's not to say that a singer or rapper isn't talented, they are and in some cases they truly are an anomaly, but on aggregate they're pretty common to find.

What's not common, is finding talented acts who can sell records. Huge difference. That's where the comparisons to athletes come into play.

You’re right, which is why things get very tricky with music

But obviously as humans there are songs we like and songs we don’t, and songs we like more than other songs we like

Good insight, but what is the point you are trying to make?

I don’t get why you don’t believe you can find those abilities though in a person. Sure it will be hard to find that 7 footer, but Giannis wasn’t as talented then as he is now. He worked at it.

Also, why do you consider Drake him a top 10 rapper

Like you said, we can search the world and find someone more talented at him with Melodie’s, flows, lyrics, and all the rapping parameters. Again, something you can work at also

Ahh i understand more now your point…

So you think selling records is the parameter we should compare to sport athletes?

Specifically, what, championships?

jokic is better

Who tf would not love Long Kiss

real

If someone breaks the record for fastest 100m sprint, they've objectively done the best at the time in their chosen field, speed is the metric for success

If your album breaks sales records, it's objectively succeeded in one metric, however the amount of sales does very little to affect the listening experience, which is the primary metric on which music is judged

Sport is more of a binary objective ladder of success situation while music is more ambiguous

And I’m saying hip hop used to be liked for the technical ability of the rapper

Obviously it’s changed now because people care more about the vibe of the song

And I think that’s cool. I think the overall song matters more then just getting bars off but sometimes just getting bars off (technical ability) is what makes it a good song

We could go on and on about subjective/objective but honestly there’s a specific reason people like songs. It could be the rhythm, the vibe, the melody, the lyrics, anything really. And creating some of those elements are harder and take more skill than others

I’d argue some music is more definitive than scoring points but I at least understand where OP is coming from

Great way to put it

Which is why I get annoyed when people use sales as their main base of greatness in music

For example, ok yes Drake has sold millions of singles, but not one of them has made me cry like “GHOST!” by Kid Cudi has

An artist making you cry creates a much more meaningful connection between you and the artist imo

I see bro…

But even back then it wasn’t strictly the bars and lyrical ability that made you keep coming back to songs

It was a combination of things, like everything you just mentioned. But they did have more importance back then, then now

Look at battle rappers that got mad bars and punchlines but couldn’t write an enjoyable song to save their life, with other elements that we as listeners enjoy

Like what music?

Something like MBDTF. It’s arguably over talked about, but it’s for a reason.
It’s an undeniably good album.
I can’t see anyone listening to that album and not seeing the greatness on display, no matter how far in the future it happens

Physical or mental skill must be respected, but art/music does not as it is subjective

I think cultural things affect that though, I've tried to introduce MBDTF to people who aren't into Hip-Hop and they just don't get it at all

Similarly, if I listen to Japanese classical music, I have no idea what's going on, but the comments are full of Japanese people loving it, there are a good amount of factors that prevent music from being 'objectively' good or bad, but with sports, 10 points is 10 points

That’s a good point. Oh well, I guess it’d be hard to argue against that, lol.
At least it doesn’t necessarily have to be a bad thing that music is subjective. In a way that almost makes it more interesting; seeing what can effect how people view it and what shapes the experience, outside of the objective sounds that are being made.

Average embiid enjoyer

100% not an undeniably good album

I swear sports and music are so synonymous…

This is an interesting topic, some things can be definitively measured in both fields but what I think defines greatness is something that can’t be measured in both fields, in addition to the things that can be measured.

For music I think it’s Charisma.
And sports it’s the competitive drive to win.

MVP, Championship, etc

this cap you show me somebody hooping in 1997 its not gonna hit the same cus the game more advanced now + them niggas was playing against big dummies