some thoughts on the subject:

• something that @op doesnt mention but i think should be said is that hip hop is a genre that came from capitalism, that is of capitalism, and which does not challenge capitalism. theres probably an effort post here but ill leave it at that

• the whole idea of hip hop is turning non-commercial creativity into a market, while said creativity is being inspired by 1) the conditions that free markets are bringing onto a wide population 2) lack of meaningful political outlets to express yourself through non-market means

• its interesting to see how the genre has emerged as part of the development of wider music industry in america. i think of hip hop as something that is mostly relevant 'at home' because it allows people to strive for the same ideas that free markets propagate without keeping in mind the variety and specificity of these markets in different parts of the world. so starting up a business, keeping money in your community, investing while also displaying your wealth through purchases is something that definitely works for the american domestic hip hop market because its a universal message for that part of the world, and also due to its robust consumer goods industry. in that regard you can say that non-american peoples' perception of hip hop, aside from obvious appreciation for art form and music, is mostly a gaze or something to imitate

i think it is news for a lot of people on here, or they dont apply this information when thinking and discussing hip hop. we wouldnt have threads about snoop and ross selling out, as well as criticisms of kendrick being 'pro-industry' while maintaining an 'anti-image'. while a lot of that might be trolling or just news discussion i think theres genuine confusion in here that sometimes seeps through

soon as i touch a bit of guap.jpg

Theres a human nature element of feeling disenfranchised politically as you get older, then becoming naturally more ‘selfish’ cos the change you initially believe in making doesnt happen

Then theres mass commodification of popular subcultures, especially anti-establishment ones at that. Punk being one of the prime examples, and we all know Hip Hop was Punk’s successor as the anti-establishment genre/subculture so same thing happened unfortunately

wow this mf is so dumb it's unbelievable. so glad i never liked his music. i mean he's a great producer but he's an absolutely insufferable rapper, like literal nothing bars. nigga raps about his twitter beefs in stale memes and expects me to listen. also his voice and delivery is generic as hell. dude is carried by his own production

IDK what tyler, the creator is doing is kind of revolutionary

Exactly how I see pegg too. A edgy online troll that hates white people.

People these days have a problem with projecting their own beliefs onto artist and then get mad when said artist that they idolize doesn't align with the s*** they made up in their mind.

He DID say he might vote for Donald Trump

people wanna act like theyre propaganda proof in the land of the free then boom the last ten years on the internet is one big discussion on consumption activism

Socially/politically?

It's a complicated question that you have to ask further questions before you get to that one, if we're talking about strictly America, what positive (imo...) revolutions have happened in the past 50 years?

In certain aspects of society there's been lots of change, but if we're speaking of revolutionary like the end of segregation and women's suffrage, then I think the most noticeable change has been acceptance for LGBTQ+ people post AIDS epidemic, and I don't think you can say mainstream male hip hop (which is what we talk about on this site) has been involved in that in a positive sense

If we're talking about it on a material capitalistic sense, I don't think it has been involved in any sort of revolutionary change either and there hasn't been increased class consciousness to speak of anyway

The most commercially popular hip hop artists said to be revolutionary or political like Tupac and Kendrick Lamar both in the totality of their life and beliefs wouldn't pass the political purity test for any side of politics, they, like most rappers (and most of society), are not political enthusiasts and have transient conflicting beliefs that change based on personal anecdotes and who they feel excited by at a given moment

I appreciated Kendrick's trans acceptance song on Mr Morale, but on GNX (an album I liked regardless) talking about leaving TDE to become a business mogul highlighted that business and capitalism is important to him

The most principled artists of other genres and art forms often keep that stuff out of their music and expression too, so I think that begs the question if its actually important for your artistic expression to be outwardly "political" or political through osmosis and presentation (which most of the art I like is anyway)

Outwardly political leaves less room for nuance and representation of real people, it's better for political education to relay facts and be straight forward but I think the abstract and surreal is important to art that doesn't do so well to explain political concepts

In some ways rappers have the same expectations as politicians, they are expected to say what is the truth and what they believe, so if we talk about it simply and straight forward, then yes more rappers could be more politically engaged and educated and include more lines about it, but it's not inherently important to being a good hip hop artist to be outwardly political

I could probably write a whole thesis on this and investigate more of my points, but anyway!

oh now we poddin twin

the culture was born of defiance if u look at black joy as such, but yeah the “critical” part of things wasn’t part of the foundation even then the use of escapism far outweighs the conscious s***

also all them niggas got old and stopped caring as much, chalked up to mad factors already touched upon itt. s*** was dead before it even got off the ground sad as it makes me

s*** was clapped once niggas was doin st ides commercials

No way jpegmafia can hate white people.

It would be like if Bobby Caldwell hated black people

Perfect take

What?

If most black rappers aint had to kotow/“make em comfortable” in order to get paid, you’d see a lot more black rappers dissing white ppl in they bars lol

!!!!!!!!!

It was revolutionary. It's just that the revolution can't be sustained

Seemingly the opposite,

I’ve seen people echo it in this thread,

but Adam Curtis has a convincing segment in his doc Can’t Get You Out of My Head when he talks about this. From what I remember, he references how hip hop/rap, specifically Tupac (whose mother was straight up a communist Black Panther), channeled revolutionary energies into commercialized music. So rather than practicing direct action irl, those sentiments can be expressed and audiences can sympathize, but the energy is ultimately defused through this process as fans can get satisfaction through listening to the music and propagating it without actually DOing anything in real life

I think social media/the internet serves a lot of the same function.

bro's based, they call it slacktivism

lol what a terrible response. Knew this guy stunk outside of his crappy music. Another Lou W