look up how many people died from the atrocities of the atomic bombs, then look up the destruction we wrought upon north korea. some estimates that near a million died, and that we destroyed something like 80-85% of the countries buildings.

Maybe you should acknowledge how socialism just like any other ideology can drive people manic and lead them to commit actual mass murder on their own people

Stalin, Kim, Mao

Why are you ignoring Japan

EDIT: yikes read your post wrong give me a sec

There were more bombs on japan than just 2 A bombs, the whole country was bombed to s***, and so was much of continental europe

I didn't ignore japan, i literally just told you to go compare the death rate and destruction between the two countries.

Ye my b im doin that lmao

Just cause they got bombed doesnt absolve them of running their country terribly

Many countries start out as nothing or get bombed to s*** and do extremely well

I’m trying to understand how it’d be because my country of ecuador was ruled under somebody who seems to have went by “democratic socialism” for a while (Rafael Correa)

some peeps on my moms side were very angry (they’re a bit on the rich side). I just know it helped a lot of the oppressed indigenous people out a ton

utopia

Because I don't see why it's relevant to socialism today. We are not aiming for the USSR, or china under Mao, or north korea, and we also are not going to ignore the material conditions of those societies at the time they were under the leadership of those people, and then let people like you get away with pretending that those conditions are a***ogous to the conditions today.

well, there you have it. socialism benefits the poor and working classes.

Bro the only reason the USSR was brought up is because you tried comparing having a boss to being under a dictator’s rule...

I’m not letting YOU get away with that

Now if you can admit that we’re both being extremely hyperbolic I’d be more than glad to agree with you

But unless that’s the case then no bro we’re gonna talk about how some of these “fuck a boss” movements have turned out lmao

When one person, your boss, holds a disproportionate amount of control of over your life, what would we call that? you can talk about the idea you can quit, find a new job etc., but the fact of the matter is you can really only jump around between one exploiter and the next.

It’s not Synopsis but this entire conversation is about THAT vs an actual dictator and you trying to make the 2 seem synonymous

I’ll 100x rather have a boss than an actual dictator they are not even remotely close

*CIA 🤣

No, it's about the fact that he implied socialism = dictatorship, an argument of which I don't even accept the premise of, so we're not arguing that, while ignoring that capitalism depends on authoritarian relationships in the workplace.

Social democracy is the only viable option in the 21st century. Democratic socialism can get a lil iffy tho.

This nigga is unironically comparing my last boss to mf Stalin and Hitler right now I cannot believe it

No, that's not what I'm doing. I'm telling you that capitalism relies on authoritarian relationships, while the idea that he presented, that socialism = dictatorship, is a faulty premise.

Yes so you are LITERALLY saying capitalism is a dictatorship but actual examples of socialist dictatorships are simply just antiquated methods of reaching the correct moral goal

I f*** with you bro especially cuz you stick to your guns but you down bad itt

Socialism relies on authoritarianism way more ESPECIALLY if you actually wanna reach communism one day

I will not even allow you to pretend it is any other way

Like you should be fully ready to accept this reality as well, don’t the means justify the ends?

You're missing the argument, clearly. his whole post is implying that socialism = dictatorships, as if it is an inherent quality

My response = capitalism relies on authoritarian relationships, it is an inherent feature. meanwhile, dictatorships are not an inherent aspect of socialism, even if you can point to "socialist dictators"

It doesn't matter what you allow, because you are wrong. hell you have openly admitted to not really reading s*** so i'm not exactly sure how you can have any basis of socialist theory.

So, no, socialism does not rely on "authoritarianism," and the only way you can think that is if youre fundamentally confused on what terms like "dictatorship of the proletariat" mean

bro u know like actual socialism is way more democratic because its literally the people having more say, from the jump.