Also gameplay has to be interesting and the mechanics have to be fun to engage in, that's why open world games almost always suck these days, the ubisoft formuila for open world is tired and feels like a chore 90% of the time... We need a return to games that are more open in their mechanics than in the size of the map
What I wrote about open world games a while back:
The root problem with open world games is that they don’t make meaningful use of their space. Open worlds feel hollow because they only serve to look pretty while you’re riding your horse in a straight line from A to B. There’s no substance; there’s nothing to engage with. Developers cram in filler like bandit camps and treasure caches to justify these massive spaces and pad out the total playtime, but clearing all those little map markers just feels like busywork.
The ability to explore space is a unique feature of video games that other mediums like film and literature just don't have access to, and I hope the developers of these open world games pay more attention to world and level design moving forward. Games like Dark Souls and Hollow Knight use their spaces for incredible worldbuilding and environmental storytelling, while Breath of the Wild and Death Stranding seem to make navigating through space a meaningful interaction (though I haven’t played either of these yet). That’s what I want more of: spaces with substance.
What I wrote about open world games a while back:
The root problem with open world games is that they don’t make meaningful use of their space. Open worlds feel hollow because they only serve to look pretty while you’re riding your horse in a straight line from A to B. There’s no substance; there’s nothing to engage with. Developers cram in filler like bandit camps and treasure caches to justify these massive spaces and pad out the total playtime, but clearing all those little map markers just feels like busywork.
The ability to explore space is a unique feature of video games that other mediums like film and literature just don't have access to, and I hope the developers of these open world games pay more attention to world and level design moving forward. Games like Dark Souls and Hollow Knight use their spaces for incredible worldbuilding and environmental storytelling, while Breath of the Wild and Death Stranding seem to make navigating through space a meaningful interaction (though I haven’t played either of these yet). That’s what I want more of: spaces with substance.
I can't agree more with you
You forgot atmosphere. Biggest reason why i play from Software games
Yeah I mean I don't really define atmosphere as a precise thing since it can be achieved through visuals as well as sound etc
Depends what the point of the game is
If it’s a narrative, story driven game then obviously the story is one of the most important parts. That’s why I’m playing it.
But for something like a JRPG I really value character design and art style a lot compared to other genres. Story isn’t as high of a priority.
For shooters and action RPGs gameplay is #1 without question.
This is all perfectly valid, but I’m personally looking for more out of video games as a medium than gameplay on its own. To paraphrase what I said in my original post: I care about video games as a storytelling medium, and I find gameplay that is contextualised by narrative to be more meaningful.
I personally have zero interest in games that lack story (e.g. Mario), but that’s fine; I’m not asking for those games to cater to me. I mostly play RPGs and narrative-driven action games where story serves as the backbone of the experience (e.g. Persona, Nier: Automata, God of War), and it’s those games that I find to be the most engaging.
Thats completely fine, the games you listed are excellent in both storytelling and gameplay so i understand why you're into them. My point was more about people who play videogames only to enjoy the story disregarding gameplay completely, and you dont seem to be one of these. I also love rpgs, mainly the megami tensei series because of its fun gameplay but also because of the thought provoking subject matter the series tackles throughout the games. Chrono trigger, one of my favorite games of all time, is held to such high regard also because of its fantastic plot so its not something i completely overlook.
Also, in videogames if you want to experience the entire story you must actually play it, and if the gameplay is subpar progressing through the story becomes frustrating and at times even boring. So in a way a good story is dependant on gameplay
Also, in videogames if you want to experience the entire story you must actually play it, and if the gameplay is subpar progressing through the story becomes frustrating and at times even boring. So in a way a good story is dependant on gameplay
Yup à good exemple i have is xenogears, tried to play it through this summer... I gave up abojt halfway, the story the settings and characters were all top notch, but man the gameplay, while it's good, is sandwiched between hour long dialogue scenes, exposition, cutscenes... 30 hours in the game I barely had the feeling of having explored the gameplay... Thahs the moment I decided I was done, because I found the game to be such a chore to go through.
Yup à good exemple i have is xenogears, tried to play it through this summer... I gave up abojt halfway, the story the settings and characters were all top notch, but man the gameplay, while it's good, is sandwiched between hour long dialogue scenes, exposition, cutscenes... 30 hours in the game I barely had the feeling of having explored the gameplay... Thahs the moment I decided I was done, because I found the game to be such a chore to go through.
Same but in my case with persona 3. The story is intriguing but gameplay is dated and boring, still gonna finish it but sometimes its a chore to play
Same but in my case with persona 3. The story is intriguing but gameplay is dated and boring, still gonna finish it but sometimes its a chore to play
Yeah I'll finish it but I'm not hyped lol
Also à good exemple : MGS4, great gameplay full of great ideas but the story takes such a big place that you barely get to experience the mechanics, doesn't help the story is very bad too
I hate nintendo, so story matters more to me, and gameplay that pushes me further into the story rather than gameplay being the story so to speak
Also à good exemple : MGS4, great gameplay full of great ideas but the story takes such a big place that you barely get to experience the mechanics, doesn't help the story is very bad too
MGS V as well. Amazing gameplay, story not so much
MGS V as well. Amazing gameplay, story not so much
Yup but I enjoyed playing this one, it bothered me towards the end of the game when i realized the rest of the game would just be endless repeats of the same things, as fun as it is, not having an end goal can be pretty frustrating
Thats completely fine, the games you listed are excellent in both storytelling and gameplay so i understand why you're into them. My point was more about people who play videogames only to enjoy the story disregarding gameplay completely, and you dont seem to be one of these. I also love rpgs, mainly the megami tensei series because of its fun gameplay but also because of the thought provoking subject matter the series tackles throughout the games. Chrono trigger, one of my favorite games of all time, is held to such high regard also because of its fantastic plot so its not something i completely overlook.
I think you and @BaroudeurFlipFlop may have misconstrued my earlier posts to mean that I think gameplay is unimportant. I value gameplay but it's not enough to keep me invested in a game on its own, and that's where narrative comes in.
That's what I was trying to communicate with my Kingdom Hearts example:
Take the original Kingdom Hearts for example: the gameplay can be pretty rough at times, but I'm emotionally invested in the characters and the events of the game are supported by an underlying theme. Even if the gameplay is occasionally clunky, it still supports a story that I care about and makes the overall game more personally meaningful.
Contrast this with Kingdom Hearts II (or any later entry), where gameplay is smooth, tight, and responsive, but the storytelling is a hot mess with no thematic or emotional context to give meaning to anything that happens. Even if the gameplay is enjoyable, I'm not invested in the story it's supporting and so I don't really care about the game as a result.
I said that Kingdom Hearts had occasionally clunky gameplay, but that doesn't mean that I think it's "bad" (I hate describing things as good / bad). On a basic mechanical level, it's enjoyable to hit monsters with your giant key, which is the foundation of the game's entire combat system. Most of the frustration arises from the game's sluggish movement mechanics (which are more of an issue in platforming than in combat), but they aren't so frustrating as to render the game unplayable.
Red Dead Redemption 2 is an example of a game where the gameplay actively hindered my enjoyment of the greater whole. I played it for a week and felt my soul to trying to escape from my body the whole time because of how lethargic the gameplay was. I'm sure the story is as amazing as everyone says it is, but I don't have the patience to find out.
I wouldn’t say it’s top priority but when I played Fallout 4 I realized how much I cared about graphics. Gave the game less than 2 hours after seeing those horrible boxy explosions