Them niggas probably cant pay for internet any longer, pretty much what I'd expect from people who would even consider choosing dinner over actual money.

now this nigga got me listening to HOV again at my job in disbelief

Why do you type the nigga name in all caps?

Are you infatuated with the man?

because HOV still thinks it’s 1997

It ain't like, I ain't tell you from day one, I ain't s***
When it comes to relationships, I don't have the patience
Now it's too late, we got a little life together
And in my mind I really want you to be my wife forever
But in the physical it's like I'ma be trife forever
A different girl every night forever, told you to leave
But you're stubborn and you love him and
No matter what despite all the f***in' and the cheatin'
You still won't leave him, now you're grievin'
And I feel bad, believe me
But I'm young and I ain't ready, and this ain't easy
Wasn't fair to tell you to wait, so I told you to skate
You chose not to, now look at the s*** we gotta go through
Don't wanna fight, don't wanna fuss, you the mother of my baby
I don't want you to hate me, this is about us
Rather me, I ain't ready to be what you want me to be
Because I love you, I want you to leave, please

The problem is your oversimplification of the word ‘self reflection’ in the OP..

Even in the title ‘big deal’ means what exactly?

When your thoughts or ideas aren’t fleshed out or well explained it gives ppl the opportunity to project their own meaning/interpretation to the question presented which devolves the thread to needless arguing about semantics

The one part that people are missing in acknowledging is Jay Z has a really passionate fanbase. He is the goat or one of the goat rappers for many 35 and older, especially if they are from the east coast.

He has a stan group who will fiercely campaign for his legacy. Many younger people haven’t had to interact with them much because he stopped dropping music much but they are a serious bunch lol. They are the fathers of Drake, Cole and Kendrick stans lol.

Oh, absolutely. He has fans that are as rabid as any Nicki or Eminem stans (as an example, see how grown men type his name in all caps), they're just simultaneously not aware of their own stannery while quick to accuse others of the same.

It's fascinating.

The OP doesn’t even contrast his point with the detractors, critiques and genuine hate from those on the other side of the aisle when it dropped that year.. specifically that younger generation that was enthralled with the Travis,future, uzi, Migos when trap and ‘mumble’ rap was dominating..

The energy to defend 4:44 ‘ the big deal’ came directly from the old heads defending themselves from the 18-25 crowd which was 95% of the hip hop base at the time

This revisionist history is comical tbh

Literally every rapper faces those critiques

Or do you think Jay Z, at any point in his career, has gotten more hate than Eminem?

The argument that OP makes was even presented as a response to ppl enjoying it..

Things don’t happen in a vacuum.. 4:44 being juxtaposed right before Magna Carta

..it was a return to form for a lot of folks. It was a deeper, vulnerable side that wasn’t seen by folks and had a more casual listener base outside of core Stans due to the direct connection to Lemonade

Im not even 30 and he is far and away the greatest to have ever done this

That's your personal opinion

You presented the idea as if the majority of hip hop was fawning over it

..that was not the case considering majority of hip hops listener base s***ted on the album as some ‘old washed nigga yelling at the clouds’

The 30+ is an incredibly smalll percentage that actually defended against most of social media that is dominated by YNS

this is what I’m pointing out mly friend which goes back to my first post here

There's a difference between 4:44 being a return to form/covering unexplored self-reflective subjects vs it being the standard for all albums by rappers past 40.

Someone in this thread asked when Drake was going to make his own 4:44, and a lot of the discourse around Drake on social media has revolved around "immature" context, with comparisons to 4:44.

It's like Jay Z fans don't realize that Jay Z was the aberration for doing cookie cutter Rick Ross level luxury/dopeboy raps past 40, rather than making introspective content like his peers.

Lool, yes they are. People generally think it's a classic just based off "maturity"

I mean yea he has a very legitimate case for goat imo.

He released a lot of music which means he has many hits and misses. But I respect a rapper who takes more chances and challenges themselves by staying very active vs rappers who release 1 album every 3-5+ years that try to proclaim they are the goat lol.

That’s the reality of Jay Z stans lol. They were able to convince WTT was a classic before it even dropped. I have almost never seen such a forced “this is a classic” than what they did for WTT. And I was a pretty big Jay fan myself lol.

Yeah like i appreciate someone that puts out music year in year out at a high level with a variety of artists and really challenges themselves but the whole time their pen game is crazy. Like if someone’s whole legacy is 3 good albums in 10 years what are we talking about

There's a difference between 4:44 being a return to form/covering unexplored self-reflective subjects vs it being the standard for all albums by rappers past 40.” - I think it would help to simply edit the OP because that’s what I’m responding to .. now the opinion that the majority of the culture treats the record like it’s ’the standard for all albums by rappers past 40’ is an actual compelling argument that would make a nice debate

What u did in the original title/OP was not

I’ll address that claim momentarily

“Someone in this thread asked when Drake was going to make his own 4:44, and a lot of the discourse around Drake on social media has revolved around "immature" context, with comparisons to 4:44.” -

I think you’re over representing that opinions of Drake ‘haters’ and because you’re a fan that feels like a personal indictment, when truthfully when we zoom out I’ve seen neutral fans that have previously criticized albums like CLB/FOTD praise and gave Drake credit for Iceman for a ‘return to form’ for Drake ..citing ‘ covering unexplored self-reflective subjects’ much deeper than he’s ever been before discussions aren’t supposed to feature two extremes I.E - frothy mouth stands vs bitter hateful losers .. it’s about all of us in between

“It's like Jay Z fans don't realize that Jay Z was the aberration for doing cookie cutter Rick Ross level luxury/dopeboy raps past 40, rather than making introspective content like his

So Jay Z Stan’s vs The majority .. I mean is that not the exact same game Stans of all artist move ?

Jay was getting lapped the whole time on WTT felt like brooklyn nets KG

No I.D.

I don’t believe that the majority of hip hop culture deem it a classic simply for being ‘mature’

It’s simply a common thing for album that is the artists most deeply personal, transparent most vulnerable work that ppl connect to will be highly rated as the ‘top’ in their catalog

Even artists that don’t write all their music see higher ratings when they do this

Life is Good had already been out