Pusha P

5y

Since when is Police a back up job?

What dusty one horse towns you guys live in where the cops are GED educated?

Acting like being a police officer is the same as working at a dead end factory job for 30+ years.

The Man

5y

I will read it. You know as much as anybody I had a very privleged childhood besides my father dying when I was 4 and more recently my mom passing away. But regardless I grew up in a picturesque village right out of a movie. I never felt unsafe and never had any problems so as a result my world view for many years was limited and skewed. As I’ve matured my world view and perspective has grown and I’m very willing to let it grow even more. A little bit ago I would have never even thought about police abolishment or defunding police but this whole recent situation has changed my tune on that. I’m not proud that it took yet another human dying for me to change my perspective but I admit I am not perfect. You and I have our differences but please don’t assume that I’m not sincere in my intentions, I wouldn’t make a thread if That was the case. I want the best for all humans who deserve it and am trying to learn how to get us there.

Tooooooooooot

5y

Source on Humanity doing so fine for thousands of years ?

Synopsis

5y

First, I would have to imagine the number of men who become so enraged that they murder their wives upon learning they want a divorce is low. Second, as I've said many times, punishment has not been a successful deterrent. There are numerous studies that indicate this.

If someone murders their wife in that sort of violent rage, which as I said probably isn't too common, then the police cannot prevent the crime anyways. So the only thing you'd need them for hypothetically is to detain the citizen and bring him to jail. Well, there's no reason that a group of elected citizens or trained de-escalation, mental health, and trauma experts can't supervise his home as he awaits his trial, and then there's no reason they wouldn't be able to detain him and bring him to a rehab facility of some sorts if found guilty.

NiceLikeChrist

5y

only 30% of officers have a 4 year degree. 50% have at least a 2 year

rest of them who knows what those bozos are on

coltrup

5y

For starters, what I gave was obviously a crude example. There's a huge variety of crimes of passion.

My issue with what you're saying is you seem to be framing this as "can the police prevent the crime from occurring by directly stopping the criminal?" Obviously, that's impossible in a lot of these cases i.e. you brought up a personal example.

My point is that the THREAT of being jailed is what stops us from committing those kind of crimes. Adults get angry and murderous ALL of the time, for a variety of reasons. Just look at the number of people calling for certain politicians' heads- they'd probably go through with those threats if they met them in person, it's the risk of being thrown in a cell that stops us from wilding out.

You say that studies show deterrence doesn't work.
1. What studies? You've brought this up so many times, might as well drop some links.

2. This is impossible to gauge. How can you determine how many crimes the threat of punishment has "stopped" when these crimes ONLY exist as unspoken intentions? People aren't going to casually admit their violent/illegal desires. You're most likely misinterpreting/misrepresenting whatever studies you think have made this claim.

Last thing I want to say is that these crimes can mean more than murder. It can mean sexual assault, stealing, beating the s*** out of someone, etc ... all biological impulses that most people toss out of their heads because the rule of law exists.

Saying "most people don't do those things" is
1. Irrelevant because even 10% of the population descending into violence and anarchy would be a huge mess

and 2. unproven since you're basing these assumptions off of a world where police exist

The Man

5y

Investing in mental health with saved money from police budgets would help prevent a lot of these things from happening. Also funding social work as well

Tooooooooooot

5y

New York was famous for being peaceful in this era

Synopsis

5y

First, I would have to imagine the number of men who become so enraged that they murder their wives upon learning they want a divorce is low. Second, as I've said many times, punishment has not been a successful deterrent. There are numerous studies that indicate this.

If someone murders their wife in that sort of violent rage, which as I said probably isn't too common, then the police cannot prevent the crime anyways. So the only thing you'd need them for hypothetically is to detain the citizen and bring him to jail. Well, there's no reason that a group of elected citizens or trained de-escalation, mental health, and trauma experts can't supervise his home as he awaits his trial, and then there's no reason they wouldn't be able to detain him and bring him to a rehab facility of some sorts if found guilty.

Tooooooooooot

5y

Actually, the numbers for femicide are not that low, husbands beating and killing their wives are not that uncommon, this article says that approximately three women are murdered by their current or former partners every day in America :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/10/why-arent-women-us-also-protesting-against-femicide/

Tooooooooooot

5y

Actually, the numbers for femicide are not that low, husbands beating and killing their wives are not that uncommon, this article says that approximately three women are murdered by their current or former partners every day in America :
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/10/why-arent-women-us-also-protesting-against-femicide/

Synopsis

5y

i can't view it cuz washingtonpost has a trash paywall

The Man

5y

And a good portion of those who commit DV are cops

coltrup

5y

For starters, what I gave was obviously a crude example. There's a huge variety of crimes of passion.

My issue with what you're saying is you seem to be framing this as "can the police prevent the crime from occurring by directly stopping the criminal?" Obviously, that's impossible in a lot of these cases i.e. you brought up a personal example.

My point is that the THREAT of being jailed is what stops us from committing those kind of crimes. Adults get angry and murderous ALL of the time, for a variety of reasons. Just look at the number of people calling for certain politicians' heads- they'd probably go through with those threats if they met them in person, it's the risk of being thrown in a cell that stops us from wilding out.

You say that studies show deterrence doesn't work.
1. What studies? You've brought this up so many times, might as well drop some links.

2. This is impossible to gauge. How can you determine how many crimes the threat of punishment has "stopped" when these crimes ONLY exist as unspoken intentions? People aren't going to casually admit their violent/illegal desires. You're most likely misinterpreting/misrepresenting whatever studies you think have made this claim.

Last thing I want to say is that these crimes can mean more than murder. It can mean sexual assault, stealing, beating the s*** out of someone, etc ... all biological impulses that most people toss out of their heads because the rule of law exists.

Saying "most people don't do those things" is
1. Irrelevant because even 10% of the population descending into violence and anarchy would be a huge mess

and 2. unproven since you're basing these assumptions off of a world where police exist

The Man

5y

And a good portion of those who commit DV are cops

Synopsis

5y

I will compile all the studies and link them to you tomorrow when i have the time

But, I will say a lot of your post is simply working off assumptions as well.