I think there’s too much confusion around what is exactly meant by “free will” for each person in each instance.

I think reframing it as a “nature v nurture” debate is more productive, but could quickly devolve into discussions of Social Darwinism that neglect circumstance and history

his argument suggests nature and nurture ultimately determines who you are and what decisions you make... nature v nuture is an entirely different topic

Don't know, don't care

Pseud discussion subject always.

his saying that ”free will is an illusion but choices matter” went right over my head, rest was good though

After I heard that argument against free will I really haven't heard a compelling argument that it does exist. Which is annoying but that's besides the point

What if we're literally all in the matrix? One of the ways to plug out is through death/sleep.

Before we're born, we had the ability to choose our family, financial circumstances etc. and when we're born into this world we lose conscious of the fact that we chose this life.

We're living as Sim characters.

We all have gifts and ideologies we naturally gravitate to and I'm unsure if that's based on genetics or a spiritual connection to God.

I honestly think that there are a lot of people that don't need to be convinced free will doesn't exist. I don't see it as something useful knowing, a possible truth that could be better not knowing for the majority of people. Understanding it goes against everything we think to know to be true and can really make people uncomfortable

But it is something interesting to think about

how do u feel about pride and stuff, if there is no free will there is nothing we can do about anything really, which means anything we do sucessfully is just a coincidence we have no reason to take pride in. If its true then there is no actual difference between a random person and Michael Jordan. which means celebrating MJ for his achievements is as reasonable as celebrating a cow for eating grass

the problem is that 1. determinism is fundamentally not true and 2. the alternative to that is pure randomness yet our thoughts dont feel random

so clearly there is something we are missing in terms of our scientific or metaphysical understanding

as of right now, there is zero actual proof that human beings dont have free will. just flawed experiments (i.e. libet) or simplifications

for what its worth I think soft determinism is true (you are given a certain set of genes and environmental factors which heavily shape your existence)

but hard determinism seems pretty baseless to me

It happens with pride, guilt, resentment, etc… a lot of things lose their “charm” when you consider determinism, and it’s because that’s what these things are, charms. They’re products of the illusion of free will.

The thing is, as a human being, you can’t help it. You will still feel proud of yourself or others sometimes, you will resent things, blame others or yourself, etc. The illusion of free will eventually gets you. It’s probably a human defense mechanism or something.

link to this science

yea i dont think anyone behind a veil of ignorance would chose poverty and starvation though

TwistyP is proof of it

yeah bro

"Men make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past. The tradition of all dead generations weighs like a nightmare on the brains of the living"

You sat yo ass up here and decided to type this out instead of getting some hoes.

We’re you destined to that fate or did you choose if?

I dunno but there is definitely a free Willy 1 and 2 and maybe even a 3

i walk w a stick I walk with a gun I shoot Asians for fun

Your free will is severely limited by your genetics and upbringing and environment but nonetheless you can make choices, these choices do not guarantee outcomes, but only make it more or less likely that an outcome will occur

For example, for all the problems I faced, especially of my upbringing, I was set to have a pretty good life if I made the right decisions. - however I made awful decisions and now here I am (at the lower end of the overall outcome matrix, at the lower end of the outcome bell curve for every individual outcome)

damn when you have rich parents and white skin and still end up poor

Not quite but close enough so f*** it

choices. not through any crazy political manner.