New NIGHTMAN

4y

I think travis bickle needs his own separate thread

This thread was always about talking to each other as muslims our mistakes, good deeds, and just general convo

He's coming into this thread and saying theres only one specific way to be a muslim and everyone else is a "dog" lol

Ruining the thread and he has a complete lack of self aweness too

voodoo

4y

You salafi?

travis bickle

4y

Off the authority and ruling from Sheikh Ibn Baaz rahimullah:

What is the ruling on ta’wil (allegorical interpretation) of Allah’s Attributes?

A: Ta’wil of Allah’s Attributes is Munkar (disapproved of by Islamic law and Muslims of sound intellect) and is not permissible. In fact, it is obligatory for the Attributes of Allah to be accepted as stated, according to their apparent meaning that befits Allah’s Glory (Glorified and Exalted be He), without Tahrif (distortion of the meaning), Ta‘til (denial), Takyif (describing how), or Tamthil (likening His Attributes to those of His Creation).

Allah (Glorified and Exalted be He) informs us of His Names and Attributes, saying: There is nothing like Him; and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer. As Muslims, we have to accept them as they are, according to the opinion of Ahl-ul-Sunnah wal-Jama‘ah (those adhering to the Sunnah and the Muslim main body). They advise Muslims to acknowledge Allah’s Attributes as they are, without Takyif. They should be accepted as they are, without Tahrif, Ta’wil or Takyif. Muslims should attest to Allah’s Attributes as they were revealed, according to their apparent meaning and as befits Allah’s Stature, without any Takyif or Tamthil. For example, Allah says: The Most Gracious (Allâh) rose over (Istawâ) the (Mighty) Throne (in a manner that suits His Majesty). In this Ayah (Qur’anic verse) and similar ones, we are told that Allah rose over the Throne, which is in a manner that suits His Majesty and Grandeur, and the manner of this cannot be compared to that of any of His creatures. The scholars who follow Al-Haqq (the Truth) see this as signifying His Highness and Exaltedness.

The same applies to other Attributes of Allah, such as His Eye, Hearing, Sight, Hand, Foot, and other Attributes that are authentically reported in Nas (Islamic texts from the Qur’an or the Sunnah). All of these Attributes are as befits Allah (Exalted be He) and are not comparable to those of any creature. This is the opinion of the scholars from among the Sahabah (Companions of the Prophet) and those after them from the Imams (initiators of a School of Jurisprudence), such as Al-Awza‘y, Al-Thawry, Malik, Abu Hanifah, Ahmad, Ishaq, and other Muslim Imams (may Allah be merciful to them all).

Allah says, when relating the story of Prophet Nuh (Noah, peace be upon him): And We carried him on a (ship) made of planks and nails, Floating under Our Eyes He (Glorified be He) also says when relating the story of Prophet Musa (Moses, peace be upon him): in order that you may be brought up under My Eye. Ahl-ul-Sunnah wal-Jama‘ah explained the Ayah where Allah says: Floating under Our Eyes by saying that He (Glorified be He) let the ship float under His Care until it rested on Mount Judy. Similarly, when Allah says: in order that you may be brought up under My Eye. they say that He (Glorified be He) means that Musa (peace be upon him) will be brought up under His Care and with His Guidance to those in charge of raising him.

In the same manner, when Allah (may He be Praised) says to the Prophet (peace be upon him): So wait patiently (O Muhammad Sallalaahu Alahi wa Sallam) for the Decision of your Lord, for verily, you are under Our Eyes He means that Muhammad is under Allah’s Protection and Care. These interpretations do not fall under the prohibited Ta’wil; rather, they fall under Tafsir (explanation/exegesis) well-known in the Arabic language and its styles.

A third example is in a Hadith Qudsy (Revelation from Allah in the Prophet’s words)where Allah (Glorified be He) says: “Anyone who comes nearer to Me by a span, I come nearer to them by a cubit; and anyone who comes nearer to Me by a cubit, I come nearer to them by a fathom; and anyone who comes to Me walking, I come to them running.” These words are accepted as they were revealed from Allah (may He be Praised and Exalted) without Tahrif, Takyif, or Tamthil, but in the way that is wanted by Allah. The same thing can be said about Allah’s Descent at the end of the night, His Hearing, Sight, Anger, Pleasure, Laughter, Happiness, and other authentically established Attributes of Allah. They all must be accepted as they were revealed, in the manner that befits Allah, without any Takyif, Tahrif, Ta‘til or Tamthil. This is because Allah says: There is nothing like Him; and He is the All-Hearer, the All-Seer. and many Ayahs to the same effect.

As for Ta’wil of Allah’s Attributes and diverging them from apparent meaning, this is the methodology of those who follow Bid‘ah (innovations in religion), such as the Jahmiyyah and the Mu‘tazilah (deviant Islamic sects), and those who follow them. Their Madh-habs (Schools of Jurisprudence) are Batil (null and void), and have been denied and renounced by Ahl-ul-Sunnah wal-Jama‘ah, who have warned people against their promoters. And Allah is the Grantor of success.

Faygo

4y

you missed the whole point of what i was saying. me and you could sit next to eachother in the same room reading the same text (whether that be the Quran or something else) and we could both take something completely different from said text. I could send my christian grandmother a copy of the Quran in the mail and she could see it in a different light than me or you. we all are individuals and we all react to and interpret things differently from the next person.

jordan at wizards

4y

that majin guy started it. Thread was just talking about normal stuff
then he just HAD to bring up shias
i knew it was only going one way after that

Also the comparisons he made added so much fuel to the fire

travis bickle

4y

No, I understood and i’m telling you there are set guidelines for Qur’anic exegesis

He is the One Who has revealed to you ˹O Prophet˺ the Book, of which some verses are precise—they are the foundation of the Book—while others are elusive. Those with deviant hearts follow the elusive verses seeking ˹to spread˺ doubt through their ˹false˺ interpretations—but none grasps their ˹full˺ meaning except Allah. As for those well-grounded in knowledge, they say, “We believe in this ˹Quran˺—it is all from our Lord.” But none will be mindful ˹of this˺ except people of reason.
Aal-E-Imran, Ayah 7

travis bickle

4y

trying my best to be, i’m not worthy of carrying that title

Faygo

4y

this and you recommending one of Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhabs works explains everything.
not even gonna take you seriously.

Faygo

4y

exegesis in the islamic sense is used to is basically a method used to rule out contradictory rulings based on revelation lmao what are you even talking about.

travis bickle

4y

Is this the abridged version of Pinterest Qur’an?

Here’s the actual ayah 33 from Surah al Maidah:

Indeed, the penalty for those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger and spread mischief in the land is death, crucifixion, cutting off their hands and feet on opposite sides, or exile from the land. This ˹penalty˺ is a disgrace for them in this world, and they will suffer a tremendous punishment in the Hereafter. (33)

Majin balotelli

4y

its verse 32, the verse in the image is wrong. shouldnt you know it better if you claim yourself righteous and scholarly?

For this reason, We decreed for the children of Isrā’īl that whoever kills a person not in retaliation for a person killed, nor (as a punishment) for spreading disorder on the earth, is as if he has killed the whole of humankind, and whoever saves the life of a person is as if he has saved the life of the whole of humankind. Certainly, Our messengers have come to them with clear signs. Then, after all that, many of them are there to commit excesses on the earth. (5:32)

Majin balotelli

4y

its verse 32, the verse in the image is wrong. shouldnt you know it better if you claim yourself righteous and scholarly?

For this reason, We decreed for the children of Isrā’īl that whoever kills a person not in retaliation for a person killed, nor (as a punishment) for spreading disorder on the earth, is as if he has killed the whole of humankind, and whoever saves the life of a person is as if he has saved the life of the whole of humankind. Certainly, Our messengers have come to them with clear signs. Then, after all that, many of them are there to commit excesses on the earth. (5:32)

mirza

4y

That "spreading disorder" part leaves A LOT of room for interpretation. Our radical friend above would probably say that includes shias, homosexuals, people who draw the prophet, etc.

travis bickle

4y

There’s no room for interpretation. The tafsir covers all the meanings we need regarding the ayat

....and do you understand the heresy of the views you’re blatantly putting forth?

homosexuality is forbidden in Islam

the kufri doctrine of the Shia is a complete contradiction of the Qur’an

blasphemy is included as an act which proposes hadd as per the Qur’an

Faygo

4y

What is your problem if people don’t agree with your opinion?

This is the problem with salafis. This unhealthy obsession with bending people to your way of thinking.

You won’t accountable to our sins, neither will we be accountable to yours.

So please stop proselytizing.