babylon sherm

3y

The wringing is on both sides, those who want to be seen as good and thus wash their hands of an artist AND those who refuse to acknowledge a wrong. What happens when your parasocial identity stand-in does something that displeases you? Suddenly you the fan f***ed up because they did.

It’s the natural curdling of celebrity/fan/stan culture from which none of us are spared. We would all, in a way that probably dates back to our parents or their parents, do well to have drastically different relationships with the art and artists we support. Sometimes it’s also not entirely up to us

Bobby_96

3y

Meanwhile b****es are having Dr. Luke the rapist produce hits for them and getting passes.

It is what it is.

babylon sherm

3y

The wringing is on both sides, those who want to be seen as good and thus wash their hands of an artist AND those who refuse to acknowledge a wrong. What happens when your parasocial identity stand-in does something that displeases you? Suddenly you the fan f***ed up because they did.

It’s the natural curdling of celebrity/fan/stan culture from which none of us are spared. We would all, in a way that probably dates back to our parents or their parents, do well to have drastically different relationships with the art and artists we support. Sometimes it’s also not entirely up to us

Oblivion X

3y

Huh ? What op wrote is more critical towards journalists than ye lmao

ASAKI

3y

I just be listening to the album

Twist Your Cap

3y

"i don't really think it's possible to separate 'art from artist' without being disingenuous"

inaccurate

daisycutterflowz

3y

Art is an expression of the views and attitudes of the artist

They go hand in hand, can’t have one without the other

class wario

3y

this isn't really a fully formed thought but i almost feel like a lot of the excessively handwringing-y reaction to donda comes from a decade plus of people feeling growingly obliged to curate their own personal image and views around select artists and brands that align with those views. it's no longer enough to like or dislike an artist but rather you need them to have the same views and moral touchstones as you do too and this entire thought process seems to stem directly from a very neoliberal mindset imho.

kanye west has never really aligned himself with liberal politics nor experienced a huge dip in appeal due to not doing so. this isn't to say kanye doesn't say or do stupid stuff or imo have bad views on political/social matters ofc. but i can see how this must be very frustrating to journalists (by and large 'liberals' rather than say leftists) who have in the past put kanye on a pedestal for his musical output and now find themselves desperately trying to reconcile this love with the new era of personal branding mentioned above. so what we get is reviews giving him 0 stars because marilyn manson was on the album and middling reception where even a week previous it would have been far more positive in almost the exact same form.

i don't really think it's possible to separate 'art from artist' without being disingenuous as f*** but there is also a clear recalibration going on within the music journalism biz and this is going to only make for growingly uncomfortable reading over the years as more and more artists continue to fail to market themselves in the 'right' way. there is value in good and interesting and thought provoking music journalism but there is also the risk that all of this gets lost in awkward moral contortionism that many will see for what it is.

also sorry but kanye knew what he was doing with the marilyn manson appearance and to a lesser extent the dababy feature so he or his most ardent fans can't be too surprised if people react badly to it. marilyn manson is washed up as f*** and hasn't been relevant in over a decade and is also literally an abuser. this wasn't even a secret before this year which ties into what i said above about moral contortionism fwiw. but correctly he is a persona non grata and there is zero musical or social value to him awkwardly moping around in a stadium and then singing a line in a hook of an inferior version of a song already featured on the album. this was all intentionally provocative and you can't be too mad if people rise to that bait.

Twist Your Cap

3y

Marilyn Manson's music isn't about raping women

Kool Joestar

3y

Am I supposed to assume this random producer is Dr. Luke lol?

Point is he looks like less of a rapist than niggas want to admit. Like there’s more things to suggest he’s in innocent than most people who get accused.

Mango

3y

"both sides"

So the celebrities doing heinous s*** AND average people responding to it on Twitter or whatever? Nah

daisycutterflowz

3y

Doesn’t matter, it comes from the mindset of someone who did do it. And that mindset must be factored into evaluating both artistic intentions and where your money and time is going

Someone talking about distrusting women in their music may mean a VERY different thing if they were a known abuser versus not being one

daisycutterflowz

3y

Art is an expression of the views and attitudes of the artist

They go hand in hand, can’t have one without the other

Twist Your Cap

3y

just because someone smoked weed when they killed someone doesn't mean weed made them do it or even played a role

after someone does something socially unacceptable people always talk about the "signs" but in reality many of those things are just your brain making correlations that aren't necessarily accurate at all

Just because you distrust women doesn't mean you're an abuser

Nozuka

3y

We are all hypocrites to some degree

daisycutterflowz

3y

God bro you gotta be dumb af