So I was in a marvel thread and notice niggas mentioning how 90% of action films are all the same. And obviously niggas say the same thing about music too, so it got me thinking about why that is

Usually how art works is nobody just sits down and says “I’m just gonna create something original with no reference point of influence from others” it’s impossible.

Kanye’s claim to fame is being able to take things that were done in another genre wether it be samples, song structure, hooks, lyrics, etc. and turn it into some rap s*** and he’s praised as a genius for it. His literal starting point is by taking something someone else did and then flipping it.

Look at MBDTF with Dark Fantasy, Gorgeous, Hell of a life, Blame game, Lost in the world....those 5 hooks on that album are either a direct sample or an interpolation of a sample. And I’m talking HOOKS one the most important parts of a song.

Keith Richards says he doesn’t just sit down and say “time to write music” he would play other people’s songs for like an hour and eventually it would flow into something new.

D’angelo did the exact same thing with VooDoo by playing Prince and Stevie songs, etc. they call em Jam sessions, something Kendrick partakes in too.

Or you have the rappers who wrote they songs to an already famous beat and then later made another beat for it.

Art will always inspire art. The only difference is some are great at hiding it while others aren’t. How do you hide it? Well you do the “KanYe method” by going into OTHER genres and bringing it into rap. That way it’s disguised and altered, rather than being a clone of someone in your genre who’s currently hot (future clones, thug clones)

Think about it NOBODY says “Late registration is just a poor mans Portishead” but they’ll say Born Sinner is a poor mans Late Registration.

It’s the exact same thing with movies, okay so you’re watching The Matrix and think this movie is awesome I love it and I wanna make a children’s version of it...bam you now have Monsters Inc.

Pocahontas = Avatar
Superbad = Booksmart = Good boys
The list goes on and on and on.

So for those aspiring creatives wether it be music or film. Find inspirations outside of your genre, copy it and then alter it to make it fit in the genre you’re in. Have great execution and you now have a classic folks. Congrats.

@Young

Wrong

Care to explain what I’m wrong about?

That’s it. It’s simply diving into everything, learning from it and making it your own. Anyone can do it just takes dedication

there’s no such thing as an original thought so I’d agree

I think the problem is the lack of diving from others.

Truthfully I think that stems from “Rapper A” seeing “Rapper B” getting clout and money and deciding ima do what he does so I can get that too

Whereas guys like Kanye just loves music as a whole and explores other genres and is creative enough to see a melody from a rock song and think “this could be rap”....technically yes it’s stealing but it’s VERY understated how much creativity it takes to steal effectively from another genre and bring it into your own.

Sampling for beats is the obvious method cus it’s done so much, but Kanye has effectively done it with his hooks, he’s done it with song structures “I love the way Fiona Apple album is structured so I used it on mine”....shit like that.

I’ve never understood why more rappers don’t steal song structures from other genres. Instead of the basic Verse-Hook-Verse-Hook

Why you think MBDTF had instrumental breaks of just guitars playing and s***? That comes from song structures of rock songs and now it’s considered new cus normally rap songs didn’t include that. And now if you add a guitar solo to a rap song it’ll look like you copying MBDTF. The circle of life friends.

It’s all good because the rock guys steal too
I have no problem stealing in music since we all bounce off one another
The only problem I have is blatant copying or no originality
And credit but that’s a diffrent story for a diffrent day

Tarantino and Kanye is the same artist. Meaning the legwork of their genius is just the child of another persons genius that rebelled out on its own instead of being like it’s parent.

Sounds kinda like Tom Hanks son

I think a lot of rappers now just don’t even care about the history of rap so they wouldn’t even know the classics are made from r&b funk or rock samples
So they just hear what’s on now and think that’s what it’s all about

I’ve always felt creatively was the idea of taking from multiple influences and combing them into one.

Look at Michael jackson and thriller. He was influenced by all types of music and took parts of all of them and made the greatest pop/funk album of all time..

The problem with a lot of rappers (especially producers) is that they don’t have a diverse music taste like rap producers of the past and only draw influence from 1 type of music.

Yeah bro definitely. If you copy from the genre you’re in from something that’s currently hot you will be accused of full out copying. Because there isn’t much alteration being done. That’s how you end up with clones.

But if you take from other genres or s*** from the past you’re gonna have to do some type of alteration in order for it to fit in the genre/era you’re in.

48 Laws of power talks about this “Let others do the work for you” and 1 example it shares is “use the work of the past to excel your art, stand tall on their shoulders so you can be bigger than they was”

This is 100% correct. I keep using Kanye as an example but to me as a rapper he embodies all this so well. Especially with his classics.

Technically Late registration is 3 genres fused together.
It’s rap obviously, it’s soul (with the samples flipped) and it’s also orchestra with the instruments they added on top of everything.....the cherry on top

The worse thing you can do as a rapper is listen to nothing but rap. Aspiring rappers should make a long playlist: include some rap songs yes that influence you from the past, but include other genres like soul, rock, alternative, weird indie s***, rnb, etc. and put that b**** on repeat.

exactly, I preach having a diverse musical vocabulary to everyone I work with

Creativity is possible, but for others to understand it, it needs to presented in a familiar format. Otherwise it would be ignored or mocked.

Familiar format. Didn’t I say the same thing??

Besides kanye, you didn’t list anyone who has been considered original or innovative . True creatives aren’t praised, until they (or someone) waters down their thoughts into something palatable.

I used Keith Richards and D’angelo and Kendrick as examples in OP as well

I just went into more details with Kanye because it’s easier to showcase where his creativity draws from and this is a Kanye site.

I agree. Great write up OP!

Usually with a team bouncing ideas in a room together

Music is always a collaborative effort

What era was this again?

The point of the thread is where those great ideas usually stems from

Late reg took portishead and made something new

Born sinner doesnt bring anything new just a cheap imitation thats the difference