I was just watching some videos of justin bieber when he was like 10 years old and remembering just how good he was at such a young age

he was literally a child prodigy. but as he got older, some would argue he never really progressed much as an artist. his music kinda has stayed the same superficial pop throughout his career. (perhaps a hot take?)

contrast this with somebody like kanye west who didn't really have a lot of success in his music until later in life and arguably doesn't as much of the raw musical talent as somebody like bieber, yet he has made such a huge impact on music by making truly original work.

so what do yall think? is there a difference between talent and creativity or not? are they somehow related? how would you define each?

Really great thread OP, never thought about it like that

I think you can have talent without creativity, but I don’t think you can have creativity without talent.

For example, Charlie Puth has talent, but he’s not very creative.

But you can’t really name a successful musician that is creative without also being talented, because I think being creative is a talent in and of itself

And I definitely agree.

You can have the best singing in the world, but if your songs aren’t creative enough to get people’s attention then it doesn’t even matter

Nothing being said

Absolutely nothing

there’s def a difference. there’s a video somewhere of uzi from 2015-2016 where he says soemthing like “some people have it, some people don’t” talking about how easy he can make music/freestyle and it’s true. some people just can’t freestyle off the top like that. and that’s just one example

i am oward

i love these kinds of discussions

i agree 100%. you can be the flashiest guitar player ever, but that doesn't equate to you being an artist. that's why you see mfs like Stevie, MJ, and Prince being brought up as the GOATs because they were able to be both insanely talented and creative

I think Justin Bieber didn't have the rise of a Kanye West because he was incubated by a Label who wanted to maximize his commercial appeal from the jump and not enhance his creativity. the few clips i've been able to watching of Justin in a studio seeing him play drums, keyboard, guitar, freestyling a verse at like 14-15, he is undeniably talented at making music. But he has been in the system of a corporation that made him a product that can be sold to the masses. they took a kid who may have been on the path of a Basquiat and taught him how to make billboards. I think if Justin stayed on his own independent path musically until he was about 24 years old instead of being discovered at 14 his music would be very different

I mean bro there is countless people who have the talent of singing or rapping who cannot make good music or be a great music artist. It takes creativity to know how to capitalize off your talent and form something unique or innovative

Not everyone who can sing can craft something interesting with it

Not everyone who raps can craft something interesting wit it

You gotta be a complete package wen talking a creative. Talent is just the gift you have

Talent comes from mastering technical skill to the point it becomes natural, creativity isn’t really bound by one definition but you can say its by using that technical skill to innovate beyond boundaries people set before you

Musical skill vs taste is also a factor

Jacob Collier is one of the most knowledgeable musicians out there, he understands music theory like crazy, but he's made some of the worst music I've ever heard, musical skill isn't worth much if you're putting it to the service of bad ideas

It does take talent to be a true original though.

Also this discussion of talent vs. creativity is a big reason why I always say Abel > Bruno whenever that topic is brought up.

Bruno has all the talent in the world, but I don’t think he’s that creative with his gifts.

The Weeknd, on the other hand, isn’t the most technically gifted singer in the world and can’t play as many instruments as Bruno can, but he’s super creative with his approach.

This is why, to me at least, Bruno revitalizing old styles comes off as a cover band sorta thing, but when Abel does it he puts his own unique identity into it and injects new life into whatever sound he’s bringing back

thank you for bringing up Jacob Collier because I too am amazed at how awful and unenjoyable his songs are

Definitely. That’s why I think talent can exist without creativity but creativity can’t exist without talent.

You can’t break the rules if you aren’t aware of them

that actually sums up my thoughts too

there is a wealth of talented singers and musicians in general, but not everyone can take the talent into a package that connects with an audience and/or offers a certain sound or direction that no one else has

i think you are onto something. i really like this interview. jack grapes is a poet and writer i think? not really familiar with his work, but he explains how talent is the technical skill you develop at your craft but in order to create "genius" ideas you need to go beyond the bounds of your talent to where you don't really understand what you're doing anymore.

and the more talented you get, the harder it becomes to find those genius moments because you become quite entrenched in your talent, doing teh same things over and over and just kinda making the same thing.

i think this explains writers block quite well and also why in the early days when you start doing an art, you have a lot of those "genius" moments where you create something really good but you don't understand how. then as you get better and better at your art, you have a less of those moments

yeah exactly what i just said

need more threads like these where music discussion actually takes place

s*** like this is the reason why i love punk music so much. it doesn't take much to play 3-4 chords for a song, but it's how you apply them

Exactly, this the best thread I seen in a minute

Shoutout OP

/t

what the f*** is this yo

feels like im on a bad trip wow thats crazy