Sep 8, 2021
tomorrow volversec'mon man. if you do, it cheapens it from a hip-hop perspective. you know that. I don't even fault the ones who do but it does feel less appealing to listen to a rap song that wasn't written by that rapper, even a partial credit is better than none.
I mean it's a personal thing I guess but The Chronic isn't any less of a classic to me because Dre wasn't writing his raps. Neither is Eazy E any less of a legend.
Sep 8, 2021
YANDHIif this is the case you can't start at Pablo then
fine by me
Sep 8, 2021rich scouserThing is a reference track doesn't mean the person wrote it
It's just a reference track to hear that person's take on it. Their flow, delivery etc
Like how we Travis and Kanye versions singing the FML hook before Weeknd hopped on it for the official. Like how Ye and Cole each had a reference track for the same Rihanna song leak with the same bars iirc
I'm not saying that a reference track doesn't mean they didn't but it's far from definitive proof. We shouldn't misunderstand what reference tracks are for
Below you @Vagabonds posted a confirmation.
Sep 8, 2021jynthwhether he writes or not nowadays idc anymore but im not using anything TLOP-onwards as proof of his “musical genius”, even if the music is good. u can’t be a genius when somebody else is producing, writing and mixing for u. at that point ur just an A&R
it’s usually obvious when kanye is the main contributor on the verses
difference between beatmaking and producing
i believe he still produces everything and is ultimately responsible in putting everything together (vision, sonics, etc.) and theres still genius in that
- Sep 8, 2021·1 reply
MCMIC13Didnt get this part
“ music a***ogue of MacDonalds”
Music equivalent to MacDonalds. You said himself that the purpose of Kanye is to be a billionaire and MacDonalds operates using premade ingridients.
Mmm Hmm 😆Sep 8, 2021tomorrow volversea lot of Kanye fans would say that Donda isn't a great album though, especially when compared to his previous works. writers don't always make the song better. Kanye uses more writers than anyone and still has awful verses. so you can only really argue that if the majority of people (not the majority of ktt2.com) feel like the product is truly great
I think it's a great album.
Comparable to TLOP or even better
- CKL TML 🌺Sep 8, 2021Pokerking4128
Nah, actually a fan of Ye since like Cruel Summer era, but s*** started to get pretty bad just in recent years.
At first it was like: Ok, Kanye has some people in studio to come up with some themes, brainstorm some ideas .
Than it turned into: Ok, some dude wrote that line and some dude wrote another one.
Now it's: Ok, some dude is saying exact same words that Kanye said on the final song, and he also rapping from Kanye's perspective.
Actually, nowadays it's like: Wow, there is a chance that Kanye really wrote that dope verse, but I'm unsure.
man 
Sep 8, 2021·1 replyMmm HmmWould you rather get the best product
Or an okay productSo we just gonna pretend rappers who write their raps can't make "the best product"
Same goes for producers that make their own instrumentals
Sep 8, 2021YANDHInot even that but this is the reference OP was referring to. The pieces Ye combine very rarely sound like the final product. Is this comparable to Jesus Lord?
!https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YeAYfukw4QU&ab_channel=HammaDroppaKanye’s flow was super choppy on that also
Sep 8, 2021No sir
- Mmm Hmm 😆Sep 8, 2021·1 replyDonutHole
So we just gonna pretend rappers who write their raps can't make "the best product"
Same goes for producers that make their own instrumentals100% guarantee you if Lupe, HOV, and Royce were in a room together they could cook up some wild s*** working together.
Doesn't mean each of them individually can't make the best product.
But the potential is endless when many creative minds are collaborating together.
- Sep 8, 2021·2 repliesjynth
whether he writes or not nowadays idc anymore but im not using anything TLOP-onwards as proof of his “musical genius”, even if the music is good. u can’t be a genius when somebody else is producing, writing and mixing for u. at that point ur just an A&R
it’s usually obvious when kanye is the main contributor on the verses
You're not just an A&R if you're performing on the tracks, making production choices, deeply involved in the production and responsible for the final product that goes out. How can you have listened to the album evolve over the 3 listening parties and say that
Also it's obvious Kanye is still pretty deeply involved in the writing too
Maybe he gets more help than he did at the start of his career but he's still clearly deeply involved in the production and writing of tracks. What do u think he was doing in that stadium
- Sep 8, 2021·1 replyPokerking4128
Nah, actually a fan of Ye since like Cruel Summer era, but s*** started to get pretty bad just in recent years.
At first it was like: Ok, Kanye has some people in studio to come up with some themes, brainstorm some ideas .
Than it turned into: Ok, some dude wrote that line and some dude wrote another one.
Now it's: Ok, some dude is saying exact same words that Kanye said on the final song, and he also rapping from Kanye's perspective.
Actually, nowadays it's like: Wow, there is a chance that Kanye really wrote that dope verse, but I'm unsure.For real. I can’t say I’m not disappointed when I find out he’s just reciting other peoples verses verbatim
I’m all good with having someone help you with a line here and there, but to be handed whole verses doesn’t sit right with me as a hip-hop fan
- Sep 8, 2021MCMIC13
What about RNB, Pop, Electro, Dubstep, Dance, Disco???
The only genres that I know that have alot of actual live instrumentation was Soul, Rock, Funk, Jazz
And even then alot of the artists from those genres dont write their own lyrics or melodies.
Not everyone can be a McCartney, Lennon, or Clapton.
So everything is kpop then?
I can't understand what you are saying - are you saying that every genre has stuff written by one guy and performed by another one? I don't even know about ghostwriters in freaking dubstep or electro.
My stance on writing is that it's ok in genres where public has already assumed that you didn't write it. Like when I here Beyonce rapping on Ape S*** I know 100% that she didn't actually wrote that. Sinatra was the dude who felt songs on some another level and people probably wanted him to sing their songs.
The thing with Kanye and other rappers is that they have songs made for them like they wrote it, some people here pointed out that Clemons learned how to do weird syllable manipulations that Kanye likes to do or his sense of humor. - Sep 8, 2021
Damn I cant find this interview
- Sep 8, 2021
Actually it was a Cyhi interview inside like a steel cage lol with a tall white dude
Sep 8, 2021·1 replyjynthi would be genuinely surprised if kanye actually wrote his off the grid verse
That's a very Kanye verse lol.
- Sep 8, 2021·1 replyrich scouser
You're not just an A&R if you're performing on the tracks, making production choices, deeply involved in the production and responsible for the final product that goes out. How can you have listened to the album evolve over the 3 listening parties and say that
Also it's obvious Kanye is still pretty deeply involved in the writing too
Maybe he gets more help than he did at the start of his career but he's still clearly deeply involved in the production and writing of tracks. What do u think he was doing in that stadium
i get why people misunderstand what goes on but the comparisons just awful.
He told yall he was tryna be Shakespeare in the flesh but we making comparisons to A&R's, KPOP writers and DJ Khaled
Speaks to a wider misunderstanding of what being a "producer" actually means and the difference between producers and beatmakers
- CKL TML 🌺Sep 8, 2021·1 replyjynth
i would be genuinely surprised if kanye actually wrote his off the grid verse
Definitely wrote the adam / rib line
- Sep 8, 2021·1 replyJetpack
For real. I can’t say I’m not disappointed when I find out he’s just reciting other peoples verses verbatim
I’m all good with having someone help you with a line here and there, but to be handed whole verses doesn’t sit right with me as a hip-hop fan
Yep, and what even worse, I'm not a fan of Drake per se, but Drake got so much s*** for Quentin situation, and that's as wack as Kanye's writing process, but Drake's writers team is either top notch, or he writes bars and didn't submit to backseat as hard as Kanye.
- Sep 8, 2021·2 repliesMmm Hmm
100% guarantee you if Lupe, HOV, and Royce were in a room together they could cook up some wild s*** working together.
Doesn't mean each of them individually can't make the best product.
But the potential is endless when many creative minds are collaborating together.
I doubt lupe, royce or hov would write eachother's verses
There's a huge difference between exchanging ideas and having ghostwriters - Sep 8, 2021CKL TML
Definitely wrote the adam / rib line
"aint finna"
- Mmm Hmm 😆Sep 8, 2021DonutHole
I doubt lupe, royce or hov would write eachother's verses
There's a huge difference between exchanging ideas and having ghostwriters
- Sep 8, 2021·1 replyDonutHole
I doubt lupe, royce or hov would write eachother's verses
There's a huge difference between exchanging ideas and having ghostwritersJay Z can write for anyone. He wrote all of Still Dre including the Snoop parts.
- Sep 8, 2021·1 replyrich scouser
You're not just an A&R if you're performing on the tracks, making production choices, deeply involved in the production and responsible for the final product that goes out. How can you have listened to the album evolve over the 3 listening parties and say that
Also it's obvious Kanye is still pretty deeply involved in the writing too
Maybe he gets more help than he did at the start of his career but he's still clearly deeply involved in the production and writing of tracks. What do u think he was doing in that stadium
It's an unwinnable argument with people who think otherwise because you have to get into a different type of mentality. What he's doing now is not much different than what he did at the start of his career - gathering up the most important artists in the game and somehow crafting a cohesive album. He's just become more and more akin to a director rather than a musician over time, which is what people don't accept. It's still his overarching vision and he's the only one capable of executing it.
Also the notion that Kanye ruins his songs when he jumps on them is the same s*** that's always been spit since his first albums. He'll never be viewed as a great rapper, not even when he was a great rapper. And his "awfulness" has always been exaggerated. It's foolish. The man has unmatched charisma and pathos, I don't need perfection from him.