u repeating yourself

if u said "I don't think socialism would work for my business goals" etc... then you would have made a starting response that correlates to this thread, or if u said "i don't support capitalism wholeheartedly, but i still want to be able to start a business" you could have started at either of those

I dismissed your thoughts, because as you literally just said, you haven't given any thought to the economic systems at hand. idk why this is hard to comprehend.

This exactly lol. Guy said "i didn't give my support to one or another"

like ok, then what is there to work with.

What's hard to comprehend is why you wasted your time telling me f*** you instead of talking about the subject at hand when I came in because I was interested in and wanting to participate in your topic.

But leave it alone then. If this is the result, then cool

We’ll all be dead before a revolution occurs so who cares

Because Tito, you have not given thought to the subject at hand. You said yourself you weren't supporting one over the other, so what is "I just want to make money.." supposed to mean? Does it mean you arent a socialist because you want to make money? Does socialism stop you from doing what you love? Are you thriving so much under capitalism that it would be against your class interest to be a socialist?

You did not do any of that, you just came in with some vague statement, and i knew you hadn't given any thought to the actual topic, which you later admitted. So, maybe if you want to start over, and explain why "wanting to make money and do what you love" is what prevents you from being a socialist, go ahead

Well see for me

I don't really know anything about socialism to say it would stop me from starting a business.

I'm not really a capitalist either. I don't really have enough money to be on either spectrum. So I don't really have thoughts. I live in America so capitalism is all I've known, and have little to no experience with alternatives

So at the end of the day. I'm just tryna make Bread. I don't know enough about capitalism or its alternatives to have an opinion other than, I'm just tryna make money to do what I wanna do in life. I'm open to hearing philosophy in support of either side of the equation.

....but see how you got this detailed repsinse from me? It's cus you responded to me like a human and not like a douchebag

So what in the world prevented your first post from being "I don't know enough to say whether I am a socialist or not"

The thoughts I have about socialism is that I hate that it's used as a buzzword in America to propaganda people against anyone who suggests a way of life different to what America has already established.

That's all I know about it--that everything I've heard about it is rooted in propaganda.

As for capitalism--am I a capitalist? No? I guess it can be assumed I am because I was born in America against my will, but just because I don't like paying for s*** doesn't mean I'm against capitalism. That's loosely related but not even in the same realm, imo.

Because I don't talk like that naturally.

Maybe it was short sighted of me to think that you would understand "bruh I'm just trying to make Bread and do what I wanna do", because if I was around my friends, they'd understand exactly what that means--that I don't know enough about either to align myself with either.

So I probably made a mistake of speaking comfortably, and that offended or confused you. So I'll take responsibility for that.

If someone responded to me the way I responded to you, I would have said

Well you know you can make Bread with socialism, right?

So you got offended by the way I responded to you, and I got offended by the way you responded to me. Miscommunication. It's all good

the point is not to make money, though. the point is to get people to see beyond their individual goals of attaining such and such amount of wealth, to see the exploitation capitalism has wrought on the world as wealth becomes more and more concentrated, and then to see that socialism, the natural alternative, is the way forward in order to liberate the masses from that exploitation, and to meet the material needs of the people

its alright fam, these threads get like that:

essentially i'd say a good starting point is to recognize that in many philosophies the goal of capitalism is to gain as much profit/surplus out of labor/workers while paying them as little as possible etc...

Unions were one way of responding to this and other socialist/progressive parties used to be more poppin after the industrial revolution and early 1900s, but eventually with anti-communist/socialist, anti-labor sentiment that began increasing heavily, those parties kinda dissolved... because they'd be targeted as being communist and enemy of the state

people who're opponents to socialism equate it to certain periods in the Soviet Union and Authoritarian leaders but when doing that often the larger picture is missed that they were

1. unable to fully self-determine themselves due to outside factors (cold war, Russia is extremely vast and spread out so it'd take a certain type of leadership to keep it in line in the meantime, but this also could've lended itself to people creating communes more locally i.e. farming communities, this is why socialism may have made more sense there)

2. having to fight the capitalist west over economic systems and having fascist/nationalist leaders be propped up over more 'democratically' elected individuals, foreign governments staging coups, all that s***

3. The 'West' (Mostly US) wouldn't allow them to self determine on their own unless they bound themselves to trade with the US, and anti-socialist forms of government

this is all probably just commie propoganda though so who knows

You don't want money just to have money. You want it to fulfill some other goal. Housing, secure health, for your family etc.,

And in a capitalist system, those goals are very often out of reach, and completely out of reach for a certain class of society, due to the nature of capitalism itself. So, if your goal is to just make money, I won't sit here and tell you "hey thats ok, you can do that under socialism!", because it misses the point. Sure, there will be wages, fair wages at that (which cannot occur under capitalism) but the goal is not "I didn't make a lot of money under capitalism but now I am under socialism"

So for me, my dream is to build my company, The Kennis Six. And basically we gonna be the greatest niggas that people ever seen.

But the stuff we want to do is so large, that we gonna need copious amounts of money to do and sustain all that s***. It's just part of it. Like I want to install solar skyscrapers in Africa that will power countries.

That s*** gonna be worth at least 5 trill. Underpaying workers isn't really important to me--firstly, everyone is underpaid always. And second, I don't think you need to do that and I also think that perspective of the 1% is rooted in a level of resentment from people outside that group. Just cus you get rich doesn't mean you wanna do harm to others and make everyone's life miserable. Hell nah.

I don't need the money. But my company does. And so does my vision. To me, we'll have more money than niggas will ever need. But since what I want to do is greater than myself, that money will always be necessary. I'm trying to support countless and infinite others.

So to conclude... I mean what exactly is capatalism, cus I thought it was aye every man gotta build his own bread. And in doing that, you're entitled to however much you make. I don't disagree with the fundamental idea of capitalism that I just laid out, even if niggas who aren't in an advantageous position don't benefit the same way from those who are

before you do begin you could make it so that workers are treated fairly from the jump, otherwise u lazy and undermining the role the workers will play in your ability to do anything business wise in the first place

Another thing about capitalism is that America is a capitalist country. There's not a lot of capitalist countries out there, and so our society and money/business-centric way of life is our contribution to the world.

America makes its mark off of business, media, and war. Those are our 3 greatest exports. You really don't gotta live in America. I mean there's some fundamental things about the country that it's hard imagining changing just because it's the bottom line of our uniqueness in the world. Even our capitalism is tied to so much around the world that it's not even about America anymore.

So again while I'm not really a capitalist, as having been exposed to capitalism, those are some of my foundational thoughts on the philosophy. I don't think it's inherently bad, though you can look at it with the perspective that can make you feel resentful towards the 1%.

And here is where you need to learn. First, don't call it underpaying. Call it exploiting, that's what it is. In order for your company to make profit, it must exploit workers in a capitalist society. Especially if youre talking about making these kinds of profits lol. And second, as for your statement on the 1%, the individual morality of each capitalist is irrelevant. It does not matter if they want to harm others or not, the simple fact of the matter is that they do, by their very nature. They exploit people, they exploit resources, especially in the global south.

There are a ton of capitalist countries out there. It is the dominant economic system of the world lol. Again, its not about being resentful towards the 1%. It is looking at the role they have played in bringing about suffering throughout the world in their accumulation of profits in a system that requires infinite growth.

Exploit how

Because wealth is derived from labor. Therefore, the workers, aka the ones doing the labor, are creating wealth. But, we can see that they don't get fairly compensated for the wealth they create. Just to use an easy example. If a starbucks barista is paid 100$ a day, but they make 100$ of coffee in an hour, the rest of that 700$ (assuming 100$ per hour over an 8 hour day) is pure profit for the owner. Hence, this barista worked for free, her labor went uncompensated. If she was paid fairly, there would be no profit for the capitalist to pocket, reinvest etc.,

This is why you constantly see more and more outsourcing to global south countries, because they can create greater profits that way.

What's an alternative to the scenario you presented?

GOVERNMENT MANDATED GIRLFRIENDS, IM IN

That's another thing. I'm a black man so why would I trust anyone other than black people to distribute "evenly" in a socialist setting.

The Last thing I want is the government regulating that s***. I'd rather be wealthy and distribute to where and to whom I see fit, on my own Accord