Kind of both, they're also just really not all that left-wing, their whole gimmick is that people are fake leftists and only care about idpol and then they're just social democrats mostly lol

I see. Thanks for explanation!

Out of curiosity, do you have any recommendations on learning more about politics/trustworthy and reputable new sources? I don't really know anything in this realm, but fell down that rabbit hole, but wanted to check myself before sliding further down

You mean actual news sources? Or commentary like Adolph Reed?

I guess I'm looking for both

I have updated thoughts on this

My thoughts on historical materialism and dialectical materialism is that they are good concepts for a***yzing social systems (through the inversion of Hegelian dialectics and seeing contradictions) but my main contention with some Marxists is that they think it is hard science, when it is just philosophy as a tool of a***ysis

Dialectics aren’t a real force in the universe, and it isn’t the end truth of science, dialectics is just a tool, and a limited one IMO

I wasn't actually talking about stage theory in that post this entire thread was a giant trashfire, no one understood like what anyone else was saying and kept making assumptions because the topic was so inflammatory

That depends on your theory on philosophy of science tbh, the Popperian fixation on falsifiability wasn't a thing during the times of Marx and Engels, which is why they always called their a***ysis scientific, which was actually mostly to distinguish themselves from "utopian" socialists who weren't materialist in their a***ysis.

I for one think that falsifiability isn't the end all be all, especially in social sciences, and even then, many theories of Marxism are falsifiable. I never found that argument all that compelling.

Yeah i know lol i was just talking about that post in itself

What did this guy get banned for again?

Transphobia

wow, not surprising

One thing that bothers me about some people who are deep into idpol is when they do the whole "IT'S NOT MY JOB TO EDUCATE YOU" bit

Like obviously somebody is gonna have to do it, why are you gonna act above it?

It's like some of these people are so occupied with creating a "safe" environment for people of all identities in leftist organizations to such an extent that it eventually stops organizing lol.

Like brobif you want to organize a leftist movement that's actually gonna be successful then unfortunately you can't be that preoccupied with safety like that, people having backwards cultural views might be the least of your worries

Some leftists are are so deep into idpol want the working class to make themselves culturally appealing to them before they organize with them, instead of making themselves appealing to the working class while educating them on those social issues in a non-condescending manner.

And the liberal propaganda about "white leftists", "white working class" and "class reductionist Bernie bros" has been so successful that people will immediately think about the section of the white working class with racist attitudes, but these reactionary views exist in minority groups as well, and depending on the specific issue even to a larger extent. Especially here in Europe, immigrants who are often from more culturally conservative backgrounds might not always have the same enlightened takes on sexuality, gender etc. as the types who feel like they should not be expected to educate people on social issues

So what are we gonna have now white leftists telling some poor Moroccan immigrant in Rotterdam south that it's not their job to educate them on gender lol? In reality they don't even come this far because the left has so utterly failed and barely even attempted to reach out to these communities here, it's depressing.

But this is why I do think there's merit in focusing more on material issues that affect all working class people in the same way directly that they can easily understand. The further away the issues are from their own direct experience and their own wallet the more prone people are to having backwards views due to ideology. That doesn't mean we should compromise on those other non-economic issues, but unlike some would say, it does mean that it actually is our job to educate them.

We have to go back to being more involved in directly organizing for and with the working class to build trust so they see we actually got their best interest at heart. I think especially tenant unions now are relatively unexplored territory through which this could be done.

The communist party in Austria won elections in the second biggest city in Austria, and I think a big part of their success is their direct engagement with the working class like their emergency hotline for tenants in need of legal advice.

And again I can't recommend watching this video enough

this weirdo obsession with who is saying something as opposed to what is being said is downright moronic and actually rather conservative.

Identity is just the modern neo-liberal way of removing class out of the conversation by turning those that might be most vulnerable to the evils of capitalism into hypothetical voting blocks that could see themselves participating in it. Even the most leftist posturing identitarian groups will only mention capitalism by name. They never spend any time addressing it and instead focus on disparity based conversations which are deceptively pro-capitalist.

It’s a two fold mechanism that also dismisses functional flaws within power structures as moral issues created by the corrupted people in power, and not something that is an issue of the system itself

Same thing happens with identity in a way

"It’s not my job to educate you just google it"

Yea extremely safe move to ask GOOGLE

You're absolutely right just focusing on identity without a class content, like for example having more representation or more upper small business dont solve any contradictions, in the short term they'll support what cause you have but will become petty or big bouergioufied over time, and turn against any left movement. Like how a failed small business owner might start working in a factory so he can get back to where he was before, but over time become more proletariat and give up on that petty bourgeoisie dream and start fighting for a better life through joining a union for example

I organise among Indian immigrants a lot and this insanely common, older Indian immigrants would take advantage of the indian identity and naiveness that younger newer immigrants coming to Canada have. There was this small indian business that during the pandemic was opening up multiple shops but was paying their workers 7 dollars under minimum wage and working them exhausting where they would have to go to the doctor and get recommended 5 days off, and her boss only offered 2 days. This is what happened when u completely ignore the class basis of the identity.

Leftist movements lines on identities should differ among where the leftist movement lies, I know Chinese communist compared to the Peruvian communist were "less" on feminism cause the were afraid of losing the mass base if they went too far left on that line during the revolution that doesnt mean they weren't for women equality they absolutely were but at that time and place, that wasn't the primary contradiction so they put in the back for then, lets not forget that they had then women hold half the sky mass movement later on, women equality was always the plan but at that time it might have damaged there revolution and war against Japan.
The Peruvian communist were big on feminism, they would send women cadres to patriarchal villages and they would try to force those villages to adopt the communist line on women equality, you know what happened to those cadres? they got executed by the villages. The goal of leftist movements should be to build a mass base but that doesnt mean tailing behind the masses, the Peruivans were right in their struggle for women equality but it wasn't the primary contradiction at the time among these villages.

That is not to say that leftist movements should ignore identity but it should always be based on a class basis, the goal should be to isolate the backwards, uplift the middle, and unite the advanced, most leftist I see in western world rather than uplifting they rather have a condescending I was right ur wrong attitude with these people.

bouergioufied

hope the first nuke drops on France

This is ok?