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Everything in life is about value creation and the price that people are willing to pay for that value. And that’s not even money. If money didn’t exist, there would still be people at the top and some at the bottom because simply put 1. Life isn’t fair 2. We’re not all born equal, some people are simply better than others at certain things including business related subjects

the knicks really that trash huh

I’m pissing at halftime rn

Actually this capitalistic style of philosophy has only existed for 300 years or so, even if hierarchical modes of production have existed for millennia. Restructuring your views on economics to point out the contradictions from this organization, and other social organizations you see in your life is the process you’ll need to undergo to be able to progress society

Same deal as a CEO like Elon, it’s dependent on intention and execution. The thing is that unions are far more representative of worker interest than Elon. It’s just a mental exercise

Wrong place to be talking about this kinda stuff

You're falsely assuming a vision for a company is trivial.

Irony aside(hehe) this scene comes to mind:

A vision is a cultivated thought by an individual with unique experience, motivations and abilities with a unique strategy to actuate it. You don't just throw some folks in a room and come up with a vision for a company in the same way you wouldn't throw some dudes in a room and expect them to pop out MBDTF.

i understand that, i just don't know where this rabbit hole is going. I'm simply saying that workers owning Tesla would realistically be better than Elon owning it, in the frame of worker treatment. The semantics of direction and innovation and all that are irrelevant

I don't even have an inclination to like Bezos, Musk, or wealthy people in general.

It's just when you're on an Entertainment forum and you're exposed to dudes who would put Drake's shoe in their mouth or lick the crust our of Kanye's eye talking about how much they hate Bezos is corny.

Like yeah, Amazon should allow their workers to unionized, and America should have stronger union rights overall but there is nothing cornier than niggas on a forum who do that s***.

Just like Bezos won't employ people on a forum for defending him, no one is gonna defend a dude online defend every Jay Z or Ye comment. S*** has always bothered me

And I like entertainers like Ye or else I wouldn't be here but imagine some nigga you knew who has watched every Disney Movie and buys Funko Pops was talking to you about Capitalism and Corporatism.

S*** kills the conversation immediately.

Because businesses aim to make as much profit and growth possible for there shareholders at any cost instead of focusing on being the best they can be in there industry

And entertainment industry is a scam

This isn’t true at all. Commerce has always existed lol. Get away from the buzzwords of attaching capitalism to everything.

Commerce/trade has always been apart of human life.

once again, i'm agreeing with you. the issue is not commerce and trade but the capitalist philosophy which commerce and trade currently revolve around. that is a recent phenomenon.

The issue is not commerce nor production, but the means of both of these mechanism and how society is structured as a result of them

they have a million times more money dipshit

If their livelihood is dependent upon the companies continued survival how is discussing said companies direction or ability to innovate irrelevant lol?

Decentralized management structures were all the rage a few years ago, see:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holacracy
but while the exercise seemed good in theory, it just didn't pan out well in execution.

It can definitely be argued that the profit the company makes should be circling back to employees instead of shareholders who contribute nothing and thats a shift we need to see more. But thats a very different conversation then "replace the guy who made this all happen"

im simply saying that workers should own their means of production because they care about themselves just because something is relevant to the overarching theory doesnt mean its topical at the moment

online leftists

because they have so much

done more to hurt humanity you mean

its less about them doing inevitable developments of technology (EV cars or shopping apps) and far more about the resources they exploit in the name of furthering their own power.

Humanity doesn't NEED amazon. Humanity especially doesn't NEED electric personal vehicles, considering our still present reliance on fossil fuels. Those are luxury goods in the grand scheme of things

what actually should be "done" for humanity is the provision of infrastructure, social progress, and true ownership, not only over the matters of their country in the name of democracy, but of their workplace over the value they clock in to create every day

But people like Musk and Bezos don't want that because it limits their own power

Ideas are well and good man but I'm not getting anything concrete or achievable from
this ima be honest.

I’m not willing to continue the conversation is why.

Fair enough