this. if he’s god, he makes the rules anyways.

Omniscient and created beings that he already know will suffer and f*** up and eventually go to hell to burn for all of eternity just for the sake of it.

There is no justifiable reason imo and things like that are why I don't believe there's a omnipotent and benevolent god

One might be a more compelling story, but it's definitely not morally "good" imo

orangutan

Like imagine giving people free will knowing that s*** like the holocaust would happen

F*** that s*** take away my free will and just give me the illusion of it if it means things like that wouldn't happen

The only answer you’re going to get from people is “free will”.

But an omniscient being and free will cannot coexist. If he already knows what will happen then it’s predetermined therefore not free will, if what happens different from what he says will happen then he is not omniscient.

i see free will as, every infinite possibility exists. all at once

our only free will is whichever “branch” we manifest into, we don’t have free will in the material sense

Creating a weak enemy to give people the illusion of choice.

Suffering is the result of us using our Godgiven free will

only because he chose to make it so

I implied that

right, for the grander purpose we can’t fathom.

which he also chooses.

could he not make so no suffering also fulfills the same purpose?

i feel as though your argument falls into the trap of circular reasoning

Who says suffering is the equivalent of evil or that it is unwarranted? God has reasons for allowing suffering to happen. That does not imply He is bad or evil. That is a moral judgement from our, human, understanding.

(sorry i got a phone call which is why i got interrupted from replying to this; wanted to properly understand your reply)

Btw i'm arguing this from an Islamic perspective just fyi.

Suffering implies that something is not working as intended, God doesn't intend for us to suffer or be unhappy. But He does allow for it to occur because He also wants us to be able to choose between suffering and not suffering. He even sends down warnings through messengers to warn us from impending doom and suffering, should we not pay heed to His commands and intended lifestyle.

Then that implies you are more wise than God, which is logically impossible.

People are implying that God makes us suffer, while really it should be said that God intended for us to pick between the illusion of "not suffering" and actually not suffering, i.e. living according to His desire and not according to our own.

We all do things that we enjoy, because we despise to suffer. But those same things can in turn harm us, as God has warned us time and again.

yes he f***ed with job just to prove a point and didnt even let him know it was a petty bet he had with satan. Let me ask you a different question then. If we're judging god from a human level.... is he evil?

Really privileged way to see the world. People suffer without having the choice all over the world bruh

I guess if you don’t know God, understand the context of what he did, and are judging completely from a freshly level, I could understand how you would think he’s “evil”

That doesn’t make it true, though.

It doesn’t really matter what we think from our tiny human perspective. We can think he’s evil all we want, but the fact is that he is ultimately good. There’s really no way around it. I guess it’s something you either understand or don’t.

Also, punishing the flesh really isn’t as serious as spiritual punishment for eternity. Your body is here for maybe 80-90 years, but your soul exists for eternity. It doesn’t really make sense for us to call God evil for punishing people in what is essentially their “test run” for the rest of eternity. Real punishment is banishment to Hell

Nothing is privileged about acknowledging the truth. God made us, that's the only real privilege you and i have.

yes and you are banished to hell after a short human life for eternity. Pretty silly if you ask me and doesn't sound like a very understanding or merciful god. You give us a short ass human lifetime to get our s*** together and send us to hell. Jeffery dahmer went to heaven because he became a born again Christian in jail. This is an omniscient god which created this world and he knows past and present yet continues to play theater with his creations. We look at the guys in westworld as villians even though they do just as god does. If this god is real, he is a creature that simply thrives on chaos and enjoyment. Toys with human lives because it is bored and things wouldn't be fund if he just destroyed the devil. Things wouldn't be fun if he just target the pharoah rather then terrorize the innocent people. Things wouldn't be fun if he just cast satan out when he made a wager over his trusted devout follower, job. This god is not omnibenevolent or all good as he claims. We're dealing with an entity that thrives on fear and enjoys theatrics of human suffering rather then getting to the point. He wishes to see his creations burn for eternity for a short lifetime even though he is forgiving and all good

Whats privileged is you assuming people have the choice to suffer. keep living in ur bubble

I didn't say you wouldn't suffer in this life. But if you remain steadfast in your faith in this life, you can overcome any harm that comes your way. Moreover going into Heaven will surely absolve any complaint you had in this life. That is promised to us in the Quran.