I mean yeah sometimes its easy to take certain things too seriously to where it hurts the argument, but it happens,

sometimes everybody gotta relax.

at the same time some people can not get simple points through their heads to where its almost willful ignorance and they keep circlejerking with no real thoughts in their head

this aint debate club lmao

^300k posts on a Kanye West forum

discussion vs. debate

how different are they

could u be more specific in your questioning

sell to who? the state? people who need it? why would selling make a difference to you?

That’s so mean syn

I'm guessing it's because if that person paid 500k for 5 homes and 3 are taken away, they essentially lost 300k.

Any person would want to be compensated appropriately instead of completely losing something. but idk how that would even work in socialism since profits must be abolished

sell for market value? sell for the exact price you bought it for?

it’s an irrelevant measure since there’s not necessarily a reason to place an emphasis on economic position in a world where the workers’ industry can reasonably (and genuinely willingly) provide for any luxury you need whether it be a vacation or a product as long as their material needs are met

that’s the entire point of socialism. To forgo competition and artificial scarcity for the sake of solidarity, efficiency and universal material satisfaction

Why should you be compensated? Instead of spending money on important things like agriculture, healthcare, education, etc. you would want to the government to compensate every former capitalist who used to own private property? That would be a waste of funds and would lead to the concentration of wealth among a small percentage of people, something which socialism is fundamentally against. It makes no sense lol

doesnt matter they just need to be compensated

HELL YEA

if the government is taking my stuff i should be compensated. Or at the very least given the opportunity to sell it.

and yes if the government is going to take property they need to compensate people for it.

for me, personally, this is where I have issues with socialism. people often talk about it as if it's some sort of omnipotent system

I don't see how it's possible to provide luxuries for all of society without there being huge conflicts in demand and thus supply and then we're headed towards capitalist territory again. do you truly believe in your heart that universal material satisfaction is achievable?

all 200 million adults in the country are gonna want vacations. everyone is gonna end up wanting similar products and nice things. it ends up seeming like we are going to have to increasingly tighten up the definition of what is "needed" because we won't be able to provide everyone with "wants"

and its not a luxury if everyone can do or have it. if everyone has a lambo nothing is special about it.

I like synop but the thing that bothers me about him is that he acts like he’s this incredibly caring person who champions human rights and believes that those who struggle or fail can always be excused of their poor decisions because they are the product of a corrupt system but at the same time he’s this smug pretentious a****** who constantly talks down to people that he deems intellectually inferior to himself. It's basically on some Brian from family guy s***.

the argument against this is usually that you don't "NEED" a lambo so they wouldn't even be made anymore

high end or luxury cars might not exist anymore because they aren't necessary to do what cars are supposed to do which is just get from A to B

but in that case I don't think everyone is going to be satisfied driving a prius. at that point idk how socialism handles that

You're right. I pointed this out to him ages ago in a thread where he was talking about forgiveness of those who commit crimes. I pointed out that he projects that but cannot get over me posting an anti semitic meme 6 years ago. I apologised but he will not let it go. He constantly shuts down all my posts by talking about that time 6 years ago.

You're not entirely wrong. A major complaint of people living in the USSR post WW2 was the lack of consumer goods. Not the lack of food or healthcare, but people couldn't get the latest greatest sneaker or whatever and took what they actually had for granted.

The overly-indulgent lifestyle known to wealthy Americans is not possible for everyone though and should not be encouraged because it severely exacerbates climate change. If everyone on Earth had the same consumption levels as Americans, 4.9 Earth's would be needed to fulfill the demand. It's just not a sustainable way of life and will lead to total demise.

Entitlement to luxury goods stems from the materialism/consumerism relentlessly pushed by capitalists and would be abolished in a socialist society. Capitalists believe happiness is reached through buying a lambo, but happiness in a socialist society would be accomplished through a better work-life balance, more sense of community, and not having to worry about your livelihood 24/7

i would start it by moving to florida and not voting

this is a big issue i find myself thinking about. Overall, this is an issue that we find specifically in America as a result of a century of cultural direction being determined by corporate advertisement and consumerism, combined with an unparalleled civic religion and chauvinism

Americans spend their entire lives being bombarded with hyperbole and maximum emotional response, while being combined with rabid individualism and apathy for their fellow constituents.

This mentality and culture at the advent of a socialist state is obviously very very problematic and it may take generations to smooth out

In regards to the MATERIAL capabilities of it, it’s very easy outside of the much more hard to make products such as Ferraris or Lamborghinis which are hand made. Much of the luxury and scarcity we experience in our lives is artificially maintained. It doesn’t really cost that much to (ethically) make an iphone, and it really doesn’t cost that much to go to Bali on vacation. Those conditions are a two-fold barrier set in place by the oligarchs of the world who control these industries, one reason being the preservation of the upper class and the second being the pillaging of the power class who desperately struggle to be socially mobile in a country where everything hinges on a nonexistent social mobility

Also, a LOT of the luxuries we indulge in as americans are extremely wasteful and unnecessary and only exist because people are rich enough to not give a duck about their future

nothing that can’t be fixed in two or three generations of moderation and education though. Europeans and Canadians enjoy some of the most lax workplace rules in the world and their workers have roughly the same productivity as Americas

what happens in those 2-3 generations tho
how could one quell the people who are used to luxuries (which applies to all socioeconomic classes) as they are bein essentially retrained to want different things out of life

it'd be pretty hard to convince em it's a worthwhile route, so how do u suppose it'd be gone about?

well changing up how our children and young adults are conditioned to think is the very first step.

Children are educated from the beginning to become good workers before they are good humans. The very curriculum we use forgoes actual emotional and intellectual development with more and more inefficient common core curriculum that discourages critical thinking and creates rigidity amongst children

i think that's fair, but there's definitely a significant need to handle the young adults n older who already have their perspectives that'd differ from socialism, otherwise the result is just "gfy this is the new world"

which is an option, but not one that i think would progress any socialism cause

imo they’re a lost cause. America has been an anti-socialist propoganda powerhouse for 140 years now, and especially the last 80 years. If they didn’t get it now they won’t get it

people born and raised in a post 9/11 era have seen entire notions surrounding the foundational integrity of america crumble in front of their eyes, dooming their own lives and they’re ready for change