Oct 21, 2023
properyeah u watched it alrwsdy?
Yes
Oct 21, 2023·3 replies
FitzySPOILER
He def knew because when he’s with King and the doctors, they tell him that he has to give the whole thing and it’s to slow her down. This is in retaliation to her trip to DC which indirectly got the BOI into Fairfax.
Also at the end after the trial he tells her he’s happy he has no more secrets but when she asks about the insulin, he lies. He knew there was something and it becomes pretty obvious that she recovered after she was in the care of a doctor and no longer receiving the insulin shots mixed with the other stuff. This is why Mollie leaves for good, because even if Ernest does love her, he’s not capable of being fully truthful.
imo
See, but wouldn't poisoning Mollie go against his love for her? All of the multiple scenes of him declaring his love for her (and their children) come off as sincere and are virtually the only instances where he comes off as a respectable character.
I have a different take on it. Ernest isn't incredibly bright, so, initially, I don't think he fully knew what he was doing to Mollie. But I think he slowly started to connect the dots, and it all culminates in the table scene, where he is confronted with his biggest failure - he realizes he ended up hurting and undoing his family, just like King said.
Oct 21, 2023·2 repliesJonzSee, but wouldn't poisoning Mollie go against his love for her? All of the multiple scenes of him declaring his love for her (and their children) come off as sincere and are virtually the only instances where he comes off as a respectable character.
I have a different take on it. Ernest isn't incredibly bright, so, initially, I don't think he fully knew what he was doing to Mollie. But I think he slowly started to connect the dots, and it all culminates in the table scene, where he is confronted with his biggest failure - he realizes he ended up hurting and undoing his family, just like King said.
Yeah I think Ernest is just a dimwit and did genuinely believe his uncle and the doctors at first. Perhaps a part of him was in denial about the whole thing? Like when he dropped some of the insulin in his whiskey was where I feel he was connecting the dots. From that point on though he was still giving her the medicine though which was he conflicted in not following his uncle's orders versus protecting his wfie? Mollie herself was also incredibly suspicious of the medicine, but continued taking it? Even with Ernest directly picking it up himself, like it's still coming from a connection of King's lol.
- Oct 21, 2023Fitzy
SPOILER
He def knew because when he’s with King and the doctors, they tell him that he has to give the whole thing and it’s to slow her down. This is in retaliation to her trip to DC which indirectly got the BOI into Fairfax.
Also at the end after the trial he tells her he’s happy he has no more secrets but when she asks about the insulin, he lies. He knew there was something and it becomes pretty obvious that she recovered after she was in the care of a doctor and no longer receiving the insulin shots mixed with the other stuff. This is why Mollie leaves for good, because even if Ernest does love her, he’s not capable of being fully truthful.
imo
I don't think they ever told him what the stuff in the vial was is the thing. She asked what was really being given to her and while he though something was off probably, he couldn't answer because he genuinely didn't know or never asked. Even if he did ask the doctors would've lied to him. Ernest was just an overly trusting fool when it came to his uncle.
Oct 21, 2023Great film. I stayed in the theater the whole time, no breaks ❌
- Oct 21, 2023Ōzaru Nayuta
Yeah I think Ernest is just a dimwit and did genuinely believe his uncle and the doctors at first. Perhaps a part of him was in denial about the whole thing? Like when he dropped some of the insulin in his whiskey was where I feel he was connecting the dots. From that point on though he was still giving her the medicine though which was he conflicted in not following his uncle's orders versus protecting his wfie? Mollie herself was also incredibly suspicious of the medicine, but continued taking it? Even with Ernest directly picking it up himself, like it's still coming from a connection of King's lol.
Doubt that, it was just a act especially with the poison
- Oct 21, 2023·1 replyJonz
See, but wouldn't poisoning Mollie go against his love for her? All of the multiple scenes of him declaring his love for her (and their children) come off as sincere and are virtually the only instances where he comes off as a respectable character.
I have a different take on it. Ernest isn't incredibly bright, so, initially, I don't think he fully knew what he was doing to Mollie. But I think he slowly started to connect the dots, and it all culminates in the table scene, where he is confronted with his biggest failure - he realizes he ended up hurting and undoing his family, just like King said.
To me, Ernest loved money more than his wife. Even if he says he truly loved her, you gotta look at his actions. A confession of love at his trial doesn't change the fact that he was part of the plot to murder Mollie's sisters and basically kept her bedridden so she wouldn't be a nuisance. That's just my opinion though.
- Oct 21, 2023Ōzaru Nayuta
Yeah I think Ernest is just a dimwit and did genuinely believe his uncle and the doctors at first. Perhaps a part of him was in denial about the whole thing? Like when he dropped some of the insulin in his whiskey was where I feel he was connecting the dots. From that point on though he was still giving her the medicine though which was he conflicted in not following his uncle's orders versus protecting his wfie? Mollie herself was also incredibly suspicious of the medicine, but continued taking it? Even with Ernest directly picking it up himself, like it's still coming from a connection of King's lol.
Exactly. Once he started to realize the truth, he went into a state of denial. I just thought about this: Mollie goes to receive proper care and recovers; Ernest then reunites with her. At that moment, in his mind, Ernest probably believes his hands have been cleansed. However, after the trial, Mollie herself connects the dots and confronts him.
I like this interpetation because it adds a layer of tragedy to the characters, instead of Ernest just being outright ill-intentioned from the get-go.
Oct 21, 2023Ernst looked like he was packing a horseshoe at all times lol
- Oct 21, 2023Fitzy
To me, Ernest loved money more than his wife. Even if he says he truly loved her, you gotta look at his actions. A confession of love at his trial doesn't change the fact that he was part of the plot to murder Mollie's sisters and basically kept her bedridden so she wouldn't be a nuisance. That's just my opinion though.
I think his character is more complex than that. When he says he loves his wife more than money, it wasn't in an instance where he needed to lie. He was being truthful. I truly believe he loved Mollie. He was just too stupid to realize how his actions would eventually lead to the downfall of his family.
I think one of the central themes of the movie is the dynamic between stupidity and greed, which is represented through Ernest and King.
- Oct 21, 2023
also both historically and in the movie, why were native american women so lenient and willing to marry whites knowing the potential outcome, esp in the case of the Osages and how the land rights worked. was it just never explained to them?
- Oct 21, 2023
kogoyospretty, prettay good
went in with such high expectations this might have disappointed me a bit, but it was still really well done as expected.
I read the book like a year ago, which I'm sure affected my viewing experience. I was surprised Hale being behind it all was revealed so quickly when that was revealed in the last third of the book
maybe because of that, I felt like the film lacked a bit of suspense or stakes or something
also now I can understand more where the Native Americans who criticized the film were coming from. the whole film focused on the white people, and I think Marty could've done a better job showing the history of the Osage and how these murders affected them
wasn't blown away but I still liked this a lot and will see how it is on a second watch. definitely an important yet disturbing part of US history that I'm glad will now become more well known
yes i see this now. i wish we had some more dialogue from the natives on their thinking through this all happening, and some more explanation maybe of why the natives simply didn’t take things into their own hands (i assume because if they did the govt would be swift to punish)
- Oct 21, 2023·1 reply
lastly i loved the score. the string compositions fit the mood and scenes so well
Oct 21, 2023hoopsplayer21lastly i loved the score. the string compositions fit the mood and scenes so well
robbie robertson put his all in this score
RIP- Oct 21, 2023
not really a spoiler, but i’ll tag it anyway
i can’t believe that mollie was one of the first people to take insulin shots
Oct 21, 2023JonzBtw our group was debating if Ernest knew he was poisoning Mollie. I personally don't think he knew—it was like the ultimate example of his foolishness. The look on his face during the table scene was one of genuine confusion.
Edit: So according to Google, the real Ernest was well aware of what he was doing, but apparently Scorsese purposely kept it ambiguous.
he definitely knew. He rationalized it in his head that this was a better way for her to die than going out like Anna. But you definitely see how conflicted he is in what he is doing in moments like him injecting himself with part of that liquid, which literally saves her life because honestly if he gave her the full dosage that night she’d die (not sure if this is what really happened, def seems like a movie moment) and when he can’t admit to his wife at the end what he did despite telling the truth in every other area
- Oct 21, 2023kogoyos
pretty, prettay good
went in with such high expectations this might have disappointed me a bit, but it was still really well done as expected.
I read the book like a year ago, which I'm sure affected my viewing experience. I was surprised Hale being behind it all was revealed so quickly when that was revealed in the last third of the book
maybe because of that, I felt like the film lacked a bit of suspense or stakes or something
also now I can understand more where the Native Americans who criticized the film were coming from. the whole film focused on the white people, and I think Marty could've done a better job showing the history of the Osage and how these murders affected them
wasn't blown away but I still liked this a lot and will see how it is on a second watch. definitely an important yet disturbing part of US history that I'm glad will now become more well known
So I also thought about why this is from the villains perspective and it’s definitely because it channels Scorseses themes in many of his other films. It’s like a Goodfellas or Casino. It examines the POV of these bad white people and that question of “how long will you stay complicit with injustice?” I think those moral dilemmas and questions has always been in his cinema and that’s why he wanted to tackle the story from this perspective rather than giving a history lesson of the Indians (which people who find the material interesting can go and read about them now) or doing some generic studio murder mystery
Oct 21, 2023Great film but suffers a bit from Scorsese isms… the loose ends being cleaned up to the court scenes
- Oct 21, 2023
Glad Martin made this and nobody else. Really preached a message without exhausting the audience. Very moving
Oct 21, 2023anyone see this in IMAX/Dolby? trying to decide which would be better
Oct 21, 2023·1 replySeeing this today.
Tbh I’m going into this film very prepared to be highly critical and nuanced about its execution. If I get even hints of white saviorism here I’ll be really disappointed.
I made posts before months ago in this thread about how Hollywood needs to stop trauma-porn death films about Indigenous Peoples - in a history rich with resilience, acts of resistance, and survival against genocide, there are so many stories that could be shared that would center Indigenous joy and Indigenous life.
Anyway. I hope I walk away from this movie feeling it was done in the best way possible for what it is.
- Oct 21, 2023·3 replies
Also idk if this has been posted yet in here, I havnt been keeping up with every page but important perspectives to hear
- Oct 21, 2023·1 replyNunTheWiser
Seeing this today.
Tbh I’m going into this film very prepared to be highly critical and nuanced about its execution. If I get even hints of white saviorism here I’ll be really disappointed.
I made posts before months ago in this thread about how Hollywood needs to stop trauma-porn death films about Indigenous Peoples - in a history rich with resilience, acts of resistance, and survival against genocide, there are so many stories that could be shared that would center Indigenous joy and Indigenous life.
Anyway. I hope I walk away from this movie feeling it was done in the best way possible for what it is.
Won’t lie, the thought of this being white guilt trauma p*** did cross my mind for a little bit until I realized how reductive it was to summarize such a masterfully ambitious and personal film like this down to just that
- Oct 21, 2023·1 replyNunTheWiser
Also idk if this has been posted yet in here, I havnt been keeping up with every page but important perspectives to hear
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/killers-of-the-flower-moon-osage-consultant-mixed-feelings-1235620231/amp/
https://twitter.com/thr/status/1714135433976901796Yea after seeing the movie I understand his take. Basically this is an excellent Scorsese movie but it’s not an Osage Indian movie which is what he wishes to see more of end of the day
Oct 21, 2023·2 repliesThis better than Irishmen? Thought that was average and dragged. Ending was great though