Jul 31, 2020·1 replyROVOIt’s discovered.
I’m a math major, I took a class on pretty much this concept. Been a few years though so if I misremember something my bad but I’m pretty sure I got it down pat. Was probably my favourite math class ever.
Essentially you start off with basic facts of life, things that aren’t invented, they just are true. A couple examples are that you start off with only 2 numbers (1&0). 1 just means something, and 0 means nothing. Then a couple basic rules (adding nothing to anything leaves you with what you start with, something has an inverse which if taken away leaves you with nothing, etc etc. We call all these basic things axioms iirc.
Based off all the basic info, you can go on to prove literally all of math in history. Nothing needs to be added on. And I think it all starts with like 13 axioms which is wild to think about.
Like you have to prove the number 2 exists, which you do by proving 1+1 isn’t 1 and 1+1 isn't 0 (which isn’t intuitive btw). Then we learn that 1+1 must equal a new number that’s not included in the axioms and we decide to represent the number that describes 1+1 as 2. So on and so forth.
I’m mad no one probably even read this but it’s blatant proof it’s discovered and not invented
I don’t wanna be a d*** but anyone saying invented isn’t informed enough
Jul 31, 2020·2 replies
Oblivion XI mean that's the point, the fields of science and math were created to make sense of what we see in the physical world
If I find out that warmth and dryness create fire, I discovered that. Our observations are not inventions. We sre trying to make sense of nature. Everything that is occuring in physics occurs independent of human observation. If you jump from a cliff, you will die because of gravity. That's physics. We don't invent that, just like we don't invent our body (biology) or natural materials (chemistry, geology).
Jul 31, 2020Ok we’ve had enough discussion on the semantics of mathematics, now we must discuss the difference between invention and discovery as words
- Jul 31, 2020·1 replyROVO
I’m mad no one probably even read this but it’s blatant proof it’s discovered and not invented
I don’t wanna be a d*** but anyone saying invented isn’t informed enough
I basically said the same as you on that page so I didn't comment on yours, but I agree with all of it
- Jul 31, 2020·1 replyARCADE GOON
I basically said the same as you on that page so I didn't comment on yours, but I agree with all of it
Yup I agree with your posts too
- Jul 31, 2020·2 repliesARCADE GOON
If I find out that warmth and dryness create fire, I discovered that. Our observations are not inventions. We sre trying to make sense of nature. Everything that is occuring in physics occurs independent of human observation. If you jump from a cliff, you will die because of gravity. That's physics. We don't invent that, just like we don't invent our body (biology) or natural materials (chemistry, geology).
If i make a car did i invent it or did i discover that when you compound objects in a certain way that it has this effect?
- Jul 31, 2020ROVO
Yup I agree with your posts too
I aint a math surgeon tho im in law
Law is also a formal system like math, albeit a manmade one
Jul 31, 2020·1 replyARCADE GOONThere is, epistemology is a field of philosophy
i don't mean it like that. i mean there is no philosophical value in the question of whether math was invented or discovered
- Jul 31, 2020
MagicianIt wasn’t invented because math existed within everything in our universe since the beginning of time and it wasn’t discovered because you can’t put a time stamp on the understanding as a whole, just like earlier species like Australopithecus knew having from not having and that’s already math. The word we’re looking for is developed. Math was developed alongside our species and will continue to be developed since the universe expands every second and humans will never be done learning until our extinction. Modern electricity was discovered, an incandescent light bulb was invented, math was developed, like language because everyone was born emitting sound, you can’t say “x” person invented or discovered “y” spoken language, speech is different from computer coding, that language was invented and speaking was developed not discovered or invented
i'm not reading this
Jul 31, 2020·1 replyFrogi don't mean it like that. i mean there is no philosophical value in the question of whether math was invented or discovered
Not true
- Jul 31, 2020HITSLIKEDIETCOKE
Not true
yes maybe not true for a 10 year old
Jul 31, 2020no but seriously how do we set up a philosophy sxn
somebody get S on the line
- Jul 31, 2020·1 replynocomment
If i make a car did i invent it or did i discover that when you compound objects in a certain way that it has this effect?
You invented it. You didn’t invent the fact that gas burns and that wheels roll etc.
But the components and makeup of a car will never all occur together naturally. Fire happens naturally. Gravity happens naturally.
There’s a clear difference between what he said and your example.
rvi ⚡Jul 31, 2020·1 replyROVOIt’s discovered.
I’m a math major, I took a class on pretty much this concept. Been a few years though so if I misremember something my bad but I’m pretty sure I got it down pat. Was probably my favourite math class ever.
Essentially you start off with basic facts of life, things that aren’t invented, they just are true. A couple examples are that you start off with only 2 numbers (1&0). 1 just means something, and 0 means nothing. Then a couple basic rules (adding nothing to anything leaves you with what you start with, something has an inverse which if taken away leaves you with nothing, etc etc. We call all these basic things axioms iirc.
Based off all the basic info, you can go on to prove literally all of math in history. Nothing needs to be added on. And I think it all starts with like 13 axioms which is wild to think about.
Like you have to prove the number 2 exists, which you do by proving 1+1 isn’t 1 and 1+1 isn't 0 (which isn’t intuitive btw). Then we learn that 1+1 must equal a new number that’s not included in the axioms and we decide to represent the number that describes 1+1 as 2. So on and so forth.
math major gang
number theory was maybe my favorite tbh
- Jul 31, 2020·2 repliesARCADE GOON
If I find out that warmth and dryness create fire, I discovered that. Our observations are not inventions. We sre trying to make sense of nature. Everything that is occuring in physics occurs independent of human observation. If you jump from a cliff, you will die because of gravity. That's physics. We don't invent that, just like we don't invent our body (biology) or natural materials (chemistry, geology).
But u see the way we categorize those observations is an invention. Like numerals didnt naturally exist, a human using those observations created a system that could quantify nature.
Same for physic, the idea of gravity has always existed but the categorization of gravity as a Law is a human thing
- Jul 31, 2020·editednocomment
If i make a car did i invent it or did i discover that when you compound objects in a certain way that it has this effect?
Every invention is a creation using natural processes, even if it's just our brain and our hands writing a song, or engineering a car. We can never exist independent of nature. Everything goes back to it. Thermodynamics -you cannot create something out of nothing.
A creation differs from a discovery in that it is something that occurs only via human labor. Gravity will always exist, it doesn't matter if you know about it, but a car will only exist if humans exert energy to build it.
- Jul 31, 2020·1 replyrvi
math major gang
number theory was maybe my favorite tbh
Keep all the computational classes
Give me all the theoretical classes (even though they are harder typically). They are so much more interesting.
Math Foundations like I mentioned was my favourite class, followed by graph theory.
- Jul 31, 2020Oblivion X
But u see the way we categorize those observations is an invention. Like numerals didnt naturally exist, a human using those observations created a system that could quantify nature.
Same for physic, the idea of gravity has always existed but the categorization of gravity as a Law is a human thing
yes notation and pedagogy were invented
- rvi ⚡Jul 31, 2020·1 replyROVO
Keep all the computational classes
Give me all the theoretical classes (even though they are harder typically). They are so much more interesting.
Math Foundations like I mentioned was my favourite class, followed by graph theory.
yeah the applied type of classes <<<
im gonna start learning some math again in my free time soon, it feels wrong to be away from it for so long tbh
- Jul 31, 2020·1 replyROVO
You invented it. You didn’t invent the fact that gas burns and that wheels roll etc.
But the components and makeup of a car will never all occur together naturally. Fire happens naturally. Gravity happens naturally.
There’s a clear difference between what he said and your example.
So its a matter of whether free will exists or not right? Because i would say the fact that it happened at all makes it natural (like determinism). We’re all products of something right?
- Jul 31, 2020·3 repliesOblivion X
But u see the way we categorize those observations is an invention. Like numerals didnt naturally exist, a human using those observations created a system that could quantify nature.
Same for physic, the idea of gravity has always existed but the categorization of gravity as a Law is a human thing
Yes, those are abstractions that we create to make sense of it, with various social conventions used to formalize said abstractions. But you are mistaking the map for the territory. The world was a round planet before maps and globes were made. If I create a map of the world, it is an "invention", my interpretation of the data, but even if I never drew the map, the world would still exist. The same logic applies to science.
- Jul 31, 2020rvi
yeah the applied type of classes <<<
im gonna start learning some math again in my free time soon, it feels wrong to be away from it for so long tbh
I think I learned enough for a lifetime lol but I can see myself going back to help teach some of those classes that I loved.
- Jul 31, 2020nocomment
So its a matter of whether free will exists or not right? Because i would say the fact that it happened at all makes it natural (like determinism). We’re all products of something right?
Nah not really, by natural I meant without human interference.
- Jul 31, 2020ARCADE GOON
Yes, those are abstractions that we create to make sense of it, with various social conventions used to formalize said abstractions. But you are mistaking the map for the territory. The world was a round planet before maps and globes were made. If I create a map of the world, it is an "invention", my interpretation of the data, but even if I never drew the map, the world would still exist. The same logic applies to science.
Whew, this a perfect a***ogy.
Well done